Minutes of the Pre-ROP Meeting of the T/C on Protected Premises Signaling September 22-23, 2010 Indianapolis, IN

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Emery Mason
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1 Minutes of the Pre-ROP Meeting of the T/C on Protected Premises Signaling September 22-23, 2010 Indianapolis, IN Mr. Merton Bunker, Committee Chair, called the meeting to order at 8:05 on Wednesday September 22, He addressed the committee with opening remarks and introduced NFPA Staff Liaison Mr. Dick Roux. Members Present: o Mr. Merton Bunker, Chair o Mr. Leonard Belliveau, Jr., Secretary o Mr. Scott Barrett o Mr. Anthony Capkowski o Mr. John Craig o Mr. Keith Dix o Mr. Joshua Elvove o Mr. Thomas Hammerberg o Mr. Scott Harris o Mr. Daniel Horon o Mr. Vic Humm o Mr. William Hopple o Mr. Jim Kern o Mr. Peter Leszczak o Mr. Jebediah Novak o Mr. John Olenick o Mr. Lawrence Shudak o Mr. Bogue Waller o Mr. Fred Wenzel o Mr. Carl Willms o Mr. Donald Birchler o Mr. Jacob Hemke o Mr. Donald Struck Guests present: o Mr. Robert Schifiliti, SIG-AAC Chair NFPA Staff present: o Mr. Lee Richardson o Mr. Dick Roux Mr. Roux, NFPA Staff Liaison, addressed the committee with a Welcome presentation. Some key dates coming up: o Proposal closing date: o TC ROP Meetings: San Diego through o TCC ROP Meeting: Central through o ROP Posted: o Comment Closing Date:

2 o TC ROC Meetings: East Coast through o TCC ROC Meeting: Tampa through o ROC Posted: o Notice of Intent to Make a Motion (NITMAM) Closing Date: o NITMAM s Posted: o NFPA Conference and Expo: Las Vegas through o Standards Council Issuance: Mr. Roux conducted a demonstration of the NFPA E-Committee page on NFPA s website. Mr. Roux informed the Committee about the upcoming NFPA Fire & Life Safety Conference through , Orlando, FL [Hilton in Disney Resort]. A motion to approve the agenda was moved, seconded, and voted unanimously affirmative. Self-introductions were made. Mr. Bunker discussed committee organizational and procedural items (i.e., Robert s Rules, guests, task group assignments, etc.). Mr. Schifiliti addressed the committee to discuss some of the key issues for the upcoming cycle. o A discussion of ITM Summit compromises took place. SIG-PRO needs to review the documentation coming out of the Summit to make sure that the way things are written down are how SIG-PRO intended, interpreted, wanted, etc. Why do we do ITM? The best way to test an integrated system is to watch everything happen. Licensing, jurisdiction, qualified What has to be done. This is where exceptions will be permitted. o Mr. Schifiliti discussed a list of issues submitted by himself and Lee Richardson (NFPA Staff). This list represents questions that come in to NFPA staff. These issues will be submitted as public proposals by a task group member, if a change is warranted. o Chapters 12, 21, 23 are under SIG-PRO. Fundamentals (SIG-FUN) may add a chapter on documentation requirements, if there are specific requirements from SIG-PRO we are responsible to create, modify, etc. 2

3 o Definitions of Alarm, Trouble, Supervisory there is a condition that gives rise to a signal What you do with that signal will be considered the Action or the Service. o Mr. Schifiliti asked the TC to work with SIG-ECS to define Emergency Command Center and coordinate Fire Command Center. Task Group Reports. o Mr. Elvove, Hammerberg, Humm, and Willms conducted a discussion of the ITM Summit. Key points included the following: Testing dampers (NFPA 105) versus testing emergency (fire safety) control functions (NFPA 72, ITM chapter). Where does the responsibility of NFPA 72 testing items start and stop? Jurisdictional issues. Wires from fire alarm system control modules to device / system being controlled? Fire alarm system technicians performing testing, where does his / her jurisdiction end? Initial, periodic, re-inspection testing requirements. Disconnect switch for fire alarm system control modules for testing was discussed as a possibility. Test up to module? The owner is the responsible party to make sure testing is completed. Elevator recall, sprinkler waterflow switches. What has to be listed for fire alarm purposes? NFPA 3 on Commissioning could be used as a guide for coordination of ITM requirements of systems across multiple NFPA documents. Focus on defining the process and make sure that the owner is aware of what needs to be done. Annex material? Require AHJ to coordinate and/or sign-off on testing? Body of the code language? Can a statement be made in the Scope of the Document regarding jurisdictional areas for testing? Only permitted to test what you [as a technician] are qualified to test (i.e., operating a fire pump). Carl Willms and Josh Elvove have been requested to serve as liaisons to the SIG-TMS as far as proposals coming from SIG-PRO. o A discussion of committee scope took place. Mr. Schifiliti indicated that circuits and pathways is a SIG-PRO issue. o Mr. Bunker briefed the committee on the TG on Wiring. He reported a lull in the activities of the TG. The following key issues were reported: A conference call will occur on October 08, Issues included coordination between the NEC and NFPA 72 [i.e., Chapter 12, wiring pathways] and transient protection. 3

4 The NEC calls the circuit feeding panel an individual branch circuit and NFPA 72 calls it dedicated branch circuit. A discussion of technical issues took place. Mr. Bunker assigned task groups from a list of issues provided by NFPA Staff. He indicated that all proposals developed from these lists be submitted as public proposals in the name of the TG chair before November 5, Task Group assignments were assigned by the TC Chair. The task groups worked on their assignments for the remainder of the day and reported back the following morning. Mr. Bunker has requested that Mr. John Craig be the SIG-FUN representative to liaise issues with the SIG-FUN committee. Task Group Reports. In all cases, the task group members were tasked to develop proposals for the issues they were assigned. Proposals should be submitted in the name of an individual on the task group before the November 5, 2010 closing date. ITM Task Group. Mr. Josh Elvove reported the following: o SIG-TMS is drafting proposals for acceptance testing, periodic testing. End-toend testing for acceptance. o Emergency control function vs. fire safety control function. o Recommended some changes to testing wiring. o Application, Purpose, General to be handled by Editorial Task Group. o Chapter 21 is called Emergency Control Functions and Interfaces should it be changed to remove Interfaces? o Testing criteria for new types of elevator functions [first responder and for occupant evacuation]. o Definitions of Emergency Control Function and Fire Safety Control Function. Circuits and Pathways Group. Mr. Dan Horon reported the following: o The TIA is under the purview of SIG-FUN. o The use of the word circuit and pathway. 823 occurrences of the word circuit. Create a new definition for the word circuit. Review NFPA Glossary of Terms. o Section IP Networks not UL864. Unless someone brings up an issue, leave as is. o Class A and Class B. Add Ground Fault Detection to wiring classes. Adding two new classifications a Class A and B that does not care about grounds Class R (redundancy) and Class S (single) for IP. Short circuit is already covered. o Start using Class designations throughout the code. Control Functions. Mr. Peter Leszczak reported the following: 4

5 o Coordination of hoistway detectors. Needs clarification. Will submit proposal to prohibit smoke detectors to be installed in elevator pits. Look at A17.1 and NFPA 13 for coordination. o Listed relays for fire alarm systems and making it more generic for other systems. o Section three foot rule. Three foot rule applies with non-supervised circuitry. Proposal forthcoming. o Electronically locked doors modifications needed complicates the issue. Delete this and renumber sections. Add new introductory statement. Ten minute loss of primary power issue. Delete this rule. Section 12.5 Nomenclature o Mr. Richardson has asked if this section serves any purpose. Unless someone comments we will leave it as is. ECS Task Group. Mr. Jim Kern reported the following: o Should be removed? No. There are situations where a pre-recorded voice message could be used without live voice. Might be a manual of style issue. Two requirements in same section. o Sprinkler protection for survivability. No changes proposed. The intent is not that the conduit will be wetted down by sprinkler spray. o Working with SIG-ECS to draft annex text. Notification zone and evacuation zone. Proposal to SIG-ECS to change definitions. Turn definitions over to SIG- ECS. o Item 12 on issues list. Chapter 23 discussion of Class A circuits with physical separation. Does SIG-ECS need same language? Move from Chapter 23 to Chapter 12. Apply to Class A and Class X. Dan Horon s Task Group added input on this item. Make it a Coordination between Task Groups. Releasing Systems Task Group. Mr. Fred Wenzel reported the following: o Add a paragraph and put in suggested statements. o Intent is the output side of the panel not the input side. Mechanical interruption of releasing. Fire Command Center Task Group. Mr. Keith Dix reported the following: o Did a search in NFPA and ICC. ICC is consistent. NFPA is not. Definition of Fire Command Center is the same in both. Building Command Center. Emergency Command Center. Needs to go to SIG-TCC for coordination and decision if Building Command Center or Emergency Command Center are something specifically different than Fire Command Center. 5

6 o Definition of Fire Command Center relocate to SIG-ECS? There was no consensus to make this change. 72 vs. 720 Task Group. Mr. Lenny Belliveau reported the following: o NFPA 720 handles CO functions. NFPA 72 section should be re-written and reference 720 for CO functions. Don t re-invent the wheel by copying NFPA 720 language into the code. o Discuss with A.J. Capowski for assistance. Editorial Task Group. Mr. Tom Hammerburg reported the following: o Clean up chapters based on list provided. o Really only one section that conflicts with Manual of Style. o Two instances of non-required systems. o Class A and B language moving to Chapter 12. Also, performance of SLCs, IDCs, NACs should be moved to Chapter 12. One place to find requirements. Tom s Task Group to work with Dan s Task Group and Jim s Task Group. o Combination Systems. Simplify by deleting Heading doesn t do anything. Remove title from o Section to be moved? Committee does not agree. o Section 23.9 is a pointer to Chapter 24. Combine and ? o Section is a pointer to Chapter 24. Move up to Change header. o Section is a pointer to Chapter 21. o Section Exception is not appropriate. o Splitting two sentence requirements into two requirements. Other Issues o Mr. Hammerberg discussed the term accessible and suggested it be added to Chapter 3 using the extract policy. NEC defines readily accessible and accessible. Appears 56 times in the code, but not in SIG-PRO chapters. He will generate proposals. Annex C Task Group. No report was given. However, Mr. Transue is assigned the responsibility of developing any materials that may expend the annex. Mr. Bunker reminded the committee of a few close-out items o Please come to the ROP and ROC meeting prepared with a review of proposals and comments and an action and why. o Please plan to be at the meeting for all three (3) days. Old Business o None. 6

7 New Business o Merton would like to maintain Task Groups and have members look at proposals that fall within those Task Group assignments /scope of work during the ROP and beyond. A motion to adjourn the meeting was moved, seconded, voted unanimously affirmative. The meeting adjourned at 11:45 AM on Thursday September 23, Respectfully submitted, L. Belliveau 7

Agenda Technical Committee on Protected Premises Fire Alarm Systems September 9-11, 2013 Saint Louis, MO

Agenda Technical Committee on Protected Premises Fire Alarm Systems September 9-11, 2013 Saint Louis, MO Item No. Subject 13-9-1 Call to Order (8:00 A.M) 13-9-2 Roll Call 13-9-3 Approval of Agenda 13-9-4