Preliminary Agenda Technical Committee on Liquefied Petroleum Gas

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1 Preliminary Agenda Technical Committee on Liquefied Petroleum Gas Tuesday, March 10; All Day Wednesday, March 11; All Day DRURY PLAZA HOTEL San Antonio Riverwalk 0. Administrative. A. Meeting Schedule. The meeting is scheduled for 2 full days. We have 94 public proposals and 2 presentations on the agenda now and this is an aggressive but doable schedule. Plan to stay until 5:00 PM on Wednesday, March 11 so that all proposals can be addressed by the full committee. B. Attendance. Please advise the NFPA staff of your plans to attend or not attend the meeting. Please do not assume that we know you will attend or not. Hotel commitments are such that NFPA must pay for catering based on the number of members who tell us they will attend, so we do not allow for additional attendees. There may not be enough provided for the committee and guests if we do not know who is planning to attend. C. Committee Membership Update. Membership changes will be provides at the meeting D. Minutes of the Last Meeting. Minutes of the last meeting in Portland, OR in September 2008 have been sent separately. E. Chairman s Report. Report by Mr. Mortimer. NFPA 58 Agenda Page 1

2 F. Staff Report. Report by Mr. Lemoff. 1. NFPA 58 Document Status. A. NFPA was with an effective date of August, 15, B. The next edition will be issued in 2010, and will carry a 2011 date. The public proposal closing date was December 1, The committee must act on proposals at this meeting. A cycle schedule with all dates is attached. C. The 94 public proposals, and the 10 committee proposals (CP 2 thru CP 11) voted on at the last meeting are attached, in chapter and paragraph order. Note that sequence numbers have not been added yet. This will be done when the editorial task force completes its work, and a revised set will be sent. 2. Incidents. A. CSB Report. Mr. Jeff Wanko of the CSB has been invited to report on the CSB findings of their investigation of the Ghent, W. VA. incident. The CSB has prepared a video covering the incident and their investigation. The video can be downloaded from: 07GhentTragedy As the file is large, CD s with the video will be mailed to committee members before the meeting. Due to time constraints, the video will not be shown at the meeting. B. Other Incident Reports. Committee members with information on significant incidents are invited to provide information to the committee. Please advise the Chair or Staff Liaison if you wish to do so. 3. Report of Editorial Task Force. The editorial task force (Bruce Swiecicki, Dan Schomer, John King, Leslie Woodward (chair) Sam McTier, and Ted Lemoff) will present a report at the meeting. The task force s work NFPA 58 Agenda Page 2

3 appears as draft committee proposals included in the proposals sent separately. It is requested that committee members review these and be request that any with which they do not plan to vote affirmatively for be identified prior to the meeting. 4. Report of the Task Force on Propane Installations at Generator Sites. Task Force chair Richard Fredenburg will present a report. 5. Cabinet Heater Presentation Proponents have requested time to make a brief presentation to the committee related to the cabinet heater proposals. 6. Other Business Committee members may introduce other items at the meeting. It is recommended that 35 copies of any handouts be brought to the meeting. If possible, please advise the Chair or Staff Liaison of any additional items prior to the meeting. 7. Future Meetings. The next meeting will be held to act on any comments that are received by September 4, The meeting is tentatively scheduled for the week of October 26-30, A location has not been selected. NFPA 58 Agenda Page 3

4 Attachment 2, Agenda Item 4 Interpretation of , Polyethylene Pipe and Tubing in the Dome of an Underground Container. Statement: It has come to Staff s attention that in some areas polyethylene pipe and tubing is being installed in the dome of underground containers, and that NFPA 58 is not clear as to the intent regarding this installation practice. Staff has interpreted (see attached letter) that the intent of paragraph is that the dome of an underground container is not a vault (see ) and is not bridged or shielded. Therefore polyethylene pipe and tubing must be protected in other pipe where installed in the dome of an underground container. Relevant code paragraphs are (2008 edition) Polyethylene and polyamide pipe and tubing shall be buried as follows: (1) With a minimum 12 in. (300 mm) of cover (2) With a minimum of 18 in. (460 mm) of cover if external damage to the pipe or tubing is likely to result (3) With piping installed in conduit or bridged (shielded) if a minimum 12 in. (300 mm) of cover cannot be provided Polyamide and polyethylene piping that is installed in a vault or any other belowground enclosure shall be completely encased in gastight metal pipe and fittings that are protected from corrosion. Recommended Action: The committee is requested to review the intent of , considering , and to determine how the burial requirement should be applied to polyethylene and polyamide pipe and tubing installed in the dome of an underground container. If appropriate, a committee proposal should be made to clarify the code. NFPA 58 Agenda Page 4

5 Attachment 3, Agenda Item 9 Items not acted on at the 2007 meeting: 07-1 Conflict between and Table (From 2007 meeting) Par requires a 5 ft separation from the discharge of a pressure relief valve on a cylinders installed alongside a building to an exterior source of ignition (and other items). Table requires a 10 ft separation for same. We should resolve this conflict Cylinders installed alongside of buildings shall be positioned so that the discharge from the cylinder pressure relief device is located as follows: (1) At least 3 ft (1 m) horizontally away from any building opening that is below the level of such discharge (2) At least 5 ft. (1.5 m) in any direction away from any exterior source of ignition, openings into direct-vent (sealed combustion system) appliances, or mechanical ventilation air intakes NFPATable Separation Distance Between Container Pressure Relief Valve and Building Openings Contain er Type Exchange or Filled on Site Distance Horizontally from PRV Discharge to Opening Below Discharge Discharge from Relief Valve, Vent Discharge, and Filling Connection to Exterior Source of Ignition, Openings into Direct-Vent Appliances, Mechanical Ventilation Air Intakes Ft m ft m Cylinder Exchange Cylinder Filled on site ASME Filled on site Staff Recommended options: 1. Develop a committee proposal to revise to require 5/10 ft (Cylinder/ASME) from a PRV discharge to the items listed. 2. Develop a committee proposal to revise Table to 5 ft (from 10 ft.) NFPA 58 Agenda Page 5

6 07-2 Section 6.25, Fire Protection: 6.25 Fire Protection Application. Section 6.23 applies to fire protection for LP-Gas facilities. The term LP-Gas facilities is not defined, and is used only in and in Open flames or other sources of ignition shall not be prohibited where LP-Gas facilities have been purged of all liquid and vapor. The question is: is a propane dispenser a LP-Gas facility? If so, requires a fire extinguisher. The intent is not clear. Recommended Action: The committee is requested to review if the intent of , and to determine if a fire extinguisher is required at dispensers. The need for paragraph , Application is questioned, as it is similar to a Scope statement, which is not allowed for a Section. If appropriate, a committee proposal should be made to clarify the code. NFPA 58 Agenda Page 6

7 07-3 AG/UG Containers 1. Section covers ASME container assemblies listed for underground installation, including interchangeable aboveground-underground container assemblies Installation of Underground and Mounded Containers * ASME container assemblies listed for underground installation, including interchangeable aboveground underground container assemblies, shall be installed underground in accordance with (A) through (K). (A) through (K) not reprinted here. Problem: There are no requirement in NFPA 58 for the installation of unlisted ASME Underground and Mounded Containers. While many consider the ASME stamp to be listing, this is not apparent to some code users. Recommended Action: Develop a committee proposal to add installation requirements for unlisted mounded and underground containers. This could be done by deleting listing from Par (C) (1) requires an ASME container to be marked with the service, AG, UG, or both. There are no requirements in NFPA 58 for AG vs. UG, except for PRV flow, level gauge markings (reflecting different fill levels), installation of UG container appurtenances in a dome. Question: Can an aboveground container be installed underground? Recommended Action: Develop a committee proposal to clarify if it is the intent of the committee to allow aboveground containers to be installed underground. NFPA 58 Agenda Page 7

8 07-5. Building openings (6.3.9) Staff receives questions on the applicability of to dryer vents The distance measured horizontally from the point of discharge of a container pressure relief valve to any building opening below the level of such discharge shall be in accordance with Table Based on a common question, is it the intent of to apply to dryer vents? Options: 1. Revise to read: The distance measured horizontally from the point of discharge of a container pressure relief valve to any building opening, other than openings discharging below the level of such discharge shall be in accordance with Table Recommended Action: If appropriate, a committee proposal should be developed to revise the 2011 edition. NFPA 58 Agenda Page 8

9 7. Location of atmospheric vaporizers in Industrial Buildings Par states: Where atmospheric vaporizers of less than 1-qt (0.9-L) capacity are installed inside an industrial building, they shall be installed as close as practical to the point of entry of the supply line in the building. This restricts the location of atmospheric vaporizers installed in industrial buildings. It allows atmospheric vaporizers in other occupancies. Question to Committee: Should this be revised? NFPA 58 Agenda Page 9

10 8. Electrical Area Classification for Truck Wiring Par references for truck wiring where the pump s is power from the site Where an electric drive is used to power pumps or compressors mounted on vehicles and the energy is obtained from the electrical installation at the delivery point, the installation on the vehicle shall comply with covers wiring in unclassified areas and references NFPA 70 (NEC) Electrical equipment and wiring installed in unclassified areas shall be in accordance with NFPA 70, National Electrical Code, for nonclassified locations. These paragraphs, read together imply that the pump motor where installed on a truck is electrically unclassified area. Also note that: NEC does not cover truck wiring Chapter 9 does not establish electrically classified areas around trucks (bobtails and transports). Question to Committee: Is it the intent that the area an electric motor installed on a truck, where powered from a location off the truck, is an electrically unclassified area? Recommended Action: Consider developing a committee proposal to state the committee s intent clearly. NFPA 58 Agenda Page 10

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Changes for the New Edition. Senior Engineer, NFPA NFPA Changes for the New Edition Denise Beach Senior Engineer, NFPA NFPA Overview NFPA 58-2014 Substantive Changes TIAs 2017 Edition NFPA 58-2014 Substantive Changes Bulk and Industrial Plants 3.3.10 Bulk Plant.