NFPA Technical Committee on Garages and Parking Structures. NFPA 88A Second Draft Web/Teleconference Meeting

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NFPA Technical Committee on Garages and Parking Structures NFPA 88A Second Draft Web/Teleconference Meeting September 30, 2013 2:00 p.m. 3:30 p.m. EDT AGENDA 1.

1 NFPA Technical Committee on Garages and Parking Structures NFPA 88A Second Draft Web/Teleconference Meeting September 30, :00 p.m. 3:30 p.m. EDT AGENDA 1. Call to Order: Call meeting to order by Chair, Thomas Forsythe, at 2:00 p.m. on Monday, September 30, 2013 via conference call and Adobe Connect. 2. Introduction of Committee Members and Guests: A current committee roster is attached. (Page 2) 3. Chair s Remarks: Thomas Forsythe 4. Staff Comments: (NFPA procedural issues, etc.) Allan Fraser 5. Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes: Approve the November 5, 2012 First Draft meeting minutes. (Page 4) 6. Review of Public Comments for the 2014 Edition of NFPA 88A: Review of (9) Public Comments (Page 6) 7. Other Business: 8. Adjournment: Page 1 of 16

2 Address List No Phone Garages and Parking Structures 08/20/2013 Allan Fraser Thomas J. Forsythe Chair Hughes Associates, Inc San Ramon Valley Blvd., Suite 209 San Ramon, CA SE 1/1/1995 Michael E. Carsillo West Palm Beach Fire Rescue 500 North Dixie Highway West Palm Beach, FL E 7/14/2004 Daniel A. Dahl Morrison Hershfield Corporation 66 Perimeter Center East, Suite 600 Atlanta, GA SE 7/19/2002 Victor L. Dubrowski Code Consultants, Inc Woodland Parkway St. Louis, MO SE 3/1/2011 James E. Golinveaux Tyco Fire Suppression & Building Products 1467 Elmwood Avenue Cranston, RI National Fire Sprinkler Association Alternate: Cecil Bilbo, Jr. M 1/1/1992 Gerhard Haag Robotic Parking Systems Inc North 60th Street Clearwater, FL M 3/21/2006 Todd W. Haines Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport PO Box DFW Airport, TX U 7/23/2008 Eric J. Hall City of Des Peres Department of Public Safety 2 Creek Temple Court OFallon, MO E 1/14/2005 Juan Carlos Hernandez SE 03/05/2012 AECOM 800 Douglas Entrance, North Tower, 2nd Floor Coral Gables, FL Alternate: Joseph E. Caldwell Marshall A. Klein Marshall A. Klein & Associates, Inc Autumn View Drive Eldersburg, MD Alternate: David M. Hammerman U 1/1/1991 Jeffery P. McBride EBL Engineers, LLC EBL Fire Engineering 8005 Harford Road Baltimore, MD Alternate: Edward M. Fraczkowski SE 9/30/2004 Jeannene Yvonne Meisman Reedy Creek Fire Department PO Box Lake Buena Vista, FL E 07/29/2013 Donald R. Monahan Walker Parking Consultants, Inc South Roslyn Street, Suite 220 Greenwood Village, CO National Parking Association U 7/12/2001 David A. Moore, Jr. Glendale Fire Department 30 Village Square Glendale, OH E 10/3/2002 Page 2 of 16 1

3 Address List No Phone Garages and Parking Structures 08/20/2013 Allan Fraser Somnath Mukherjee Port Authority of New York & New Jersey Two Gateway Center, 16SW 100 Mulberry Street Newark, NJ U 7/29/2005 Patrick C. Ward Aon Fire Protection Engineering Corporation 5000 Executive Parkway, Suite 340 San Ramon, CA I 7/19/2002 Robert J. Wills American Iron and Steel Institute 907 Spyglass Circle Birmingham, AL M 7/1/1996 Cecil Bilbo, Jr. Alternate Academy of Fire Sprinkler Technology, Inc. 301 North Neil Street, Suite 426 Champaign, IL National Fire Sprinkler Association : James E. Golinveaux M 07/29/2013 Joseph E. Caldwell Alternate AECOM 10 South Jefferson Street, Suite 1600 Roanoke, VA : Juan Carlos Hernandez SE 03/05/2012 Edward M. Fraczkowski Alternate EBL Engineers, LLC EBL Fire Engineering 8005 Harford Road Baltimore, MD : Jeffery P. McBride SE 9/30/2004 David M. Hammerman Alternate Marshall A. Klein and Associates, Inc Chaffey Road Randallstown, MD : Marshall A. Klein U 4/5/2001 Allan Fraser Staff Liaison National Fire Protection Association 1 Batterymarch Park Quincy, MA /9/2003 Page 3 of 16 2

4 FIRST DRAFT MEETING MINUTES OF THE TECHNICAL COMMITTEE ON GARAGES & PARKING STRUCTURES November 5, 2012 First Draft meeting via Hybrid Meeting Item 1, Call to Order The First Draft meeting of the Technical Committee on Garages & Parking Structures via Adobe Connect and conference call was convened by the Acting Chair, Michael Carsillo at 10:00 a.m. EDT on Monday, November 5, Item 2, Introduction of Members and Guests The Chair opened the meeting with welcoming remarks, and self-introductions of meeting participants and guests were conducted. The following Technical Committee and Alternate members participated: NAME Michael Carsillo,, Acting Chair Thomas J. Forsythe, Victor Dubrowski, James Golinveaux, Alternate Todd Haines, Juan Hernandez, Marshall A. Klein, Patrick C. Ward, Robert Wills, Alternate COMPANY West Palm Beach Fire Rescue Hughes Assocs., Inc. Code Consultants, Inc. National Fire Sprinkler Assoc. DFW Int. Airport AECOM Marshall A. Klein & Assocs., Inc. Schirmer Engineering Corporation American Iron and Steel Institute The following Technical Committee s did not participate: NAME Daniel Dahl, Gerhard Haag, Eric J. Hall, Jeffery P. McBride, Donald R. Monahan, David A. Moore, Jr., Somnath Mukherjee, COMPANY Morrison Hershfield Corp Robotic Parking Systems, Inc. City of Des Peres, Dept.of Public Safety EBL Engineers, LLC Walker Parking Consultants, Inc. Ohio State Fire Marshal s Office Port Authority of New York & New Jersey The following NFPA staff participated: Allan Fraser The Chair provided a general overview of the agenda. Page 4 of 16

5 Technical Committee on Garages & Parking Stuctures ROC Meeting via Adobe Connect & Conference Call November 5, 2012 Page 2 Items 3, Staff Liaison, Allan Fraser reviewed the new process under the new regulations. Item 4, Review of Public Input for NFPA 88A. The Committee reviewed five (5) public inputs and generated no first revisions. Item 5, Next Meeting Date and Location Staff and the Chair will poll the committee for the Second Draft meeting date once the comment closing date has passed. Item 7, Adjournment On Monday, November 5, 2012, the meeting was adjourned at 11:15 a.m. by the Acting Chair, Michael Carsillo. Minutes prepared by Allan B. Fraser, CBI, CPCA, NFPA Staff Liaison 2 Page 5 of 16

6 /TerraView/Content/88A-2011.ditamap/2/C xml /TerraView/Content/88A-2011.ditamap/2/C xml /TerraView/Content/88A-2011.ditamap/2/C xml /TerraView/Content/88A-2011.ditamap/2/C xml /TerraView/Content/88A-2011.ditamap/2/C xml /TerraView/Content/88A-2011.ditamap/2/C xml /TerraView/Content/88A-2011.ditamap/2/C xml /TerraView/Content/88A-2011.ditamap/2/C xml Public Comment No. 2-NFPA 88A-2013 [ Section No ] Open parking structures of Type II (000) construction shall be permitted to be of unlimited area where both of the following conditions are met: (1) The height does, measured from the floor of highest occupiable story to the lowest level of fire department vehicle access, does not exceed 25 m (75 ft). (2) The horizontal distance from any point on any parking level to an exterior wall opening on a street, an alley, a courtyard, or other similar permanent open space does not exceed 60 m (200 ft). Provides a specific and non-subjective way to determine height. Also coincides with a definition in the Life Safety Code Submitter Full Name: John Chartier Organization: Northeastern Regional Fire Cod Submittal Date: Thu Apr 11 07:27:53 EDT 2013 I, John Chartier, hereby irrevocably grant and assign to the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) all and full rights in copyright in this Public Comment (including both the Proposed Change and the Statement of Problem and By checking this box I affirm that I am John Chartier, and I agree to be legally bound by the above Copyright Assignment and the terms and conditions contained therein. I understand and intend that, by checking this box, I am creating an electronic signature that will, upon my submission of this form, have the same legal force and effect as a handwritten signature /TerraView/Content/88A-2011.ditamap/2/C xml Page 6 of 16

7 Public Comment No. 3-NFPA 88A-2013 [ Section No ] Those parts of parking structures located within, immediately below, attached to, or less than 3000 mm (120 in than 3m(10 ft.) from a building used for any other purpose shall be separated by walls, partitions, floors, or floor ceiling assemblies having fire resistance ratings of not less than 2 hours, unless otherwise permitted by No change in distance criteria, but current denominations is unnecessarily large. Recommended measurements are more conventional; such as those used in Submitter Full Name: John Chartier Organization: Northeastern Regional Fire Cod Submittal Date: Thu Apr 11 07:29:03 EDT 2013 I, John Chartier, hereby irrevocably grant and assign to the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) all and full rights in copyright in this Public Comment (including both the Proposed Change and the Statement of Problem and By checking this box I affirm that I am John Chartier, and I agree to be legally bound by the above Copyright Assignment and the terms and conditions contained therein. I understand and intend that, by checking this box, I am creating an electronic signature that will, upon my submission of this form, have the same legal force and effect as a handwritten signature Page 7 of 16

8 Public Comment No. 4-NFPA 88A-2013 [ Section No ] No fire-rated separation shall be required when parts of a parking structure and a building used for any other purpose are separated by 3000 mm (120 in by 3m(10ft.) or more, and are attached only via open pedestrian balconies or bridges or open vehicle bridges. No change in distance criteria, but current denominations is unnecessarily large. Recommended measurements are more conventional; such as those used in Submitter Full Name: John Chartier Organization: Northeastern Regional Fire Cod Submittal Date: Thu Apr 11 07:30:27 EDT 2013 I, John Chartier, hereby irrevocably grant and assign to the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) all and full rights in copyright in this Public Comment (including both the Proposed Change and the Statement of Problem and By checking this box I affirm that I am John Chartier, and I agree to be legally bound by the above Copyright Assignment and the terms and conditions contained therein. I understand and intend that, by checking this box, I am creating an electronic signature that will, upon my submission of this form, have the same legal force and effect as a handwritten signature Page 8 of 16

9 Public Comment No. 11-NFPA 88A-2013 [ New Section after ] Add a new section to read: Mechanical ventilation systems are not required to operate continuously where the mechanical ventilation system is arranged to operate automatically upon detection of carbon monoxide and/or nitrogen dioxide by approved automatic detection devices. Such detectors shall be installed in accordance with their manufacturers recommendations. This Comment is submitted on behalf of NFPA's Building Code Development Committee (BCDC) in support of Public Input #3. We support the Statement of Problem submitted with the Public Input. Even the Technical Committee noted that there may be some merit in the Public Input. The BCDC also believes that this Public Input has merit. This proposal will help reduce energy consumption. Continuous ventilation systems for parking garages are unnecessary when no vehicles are operating and residual fumes have dissipated. If this proposed section is added it will provide a safe environment, reduce energy consumption with technology that is available. Note that it isn t just the energy consumption of fans; it will also limit the introduction of outside makeup air that could be very hot or cold depending on the climate. There is no need to set forth requirements on number of detection devices or location of devices because that will be part of their listings. However, OSHA recommends permissible exposure limits of 50 PPM for carbon monoxide and 5 PPM for nitrogen dioxide. Some jurisdictions will detect to 25 PPM for CO to initiate low fan speed and at 50 PPM kick to high fan speed with alarm notification. Similarly for NO2 detection will initiate low fan speed at 2 PPM and high speed at 5 PPM with alarm notification. Related Items from the Public Input Stage for This Document Related Item Public Input No. 3-NFPA 88A-2012 [New Section after 6.3.3] Submitter Full Name: Jim Muir Organization: Building Safety Division, Clark County Washington Affilliation: NFPA's Building Code Development Committee (BCDC) Submittal Date: Thu May 02 12:40:28 EDT 2013 Page 9 of 16

10 I, Jim Muir, hereby irrevocably grant and assign to the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) all and full rights in copyright in this Public Comment (including both the Proposed Change and the Statement of Problem and By checking this box I affirm that I am Jim Muir, and I agree to be legally bound by the above and the terms and conditions contained therein. I understand and intend that, by checking this box, I am creating an electronic signature that will, upon my submission of this form, have the same legal force and effect as a handwritten signature Page 10 of 16

11 Public Comment No. 9-NFPA 88A-2013 [ New Section after ] Class I standpipes shall be installed throughout open parking structures when fire department access is not provided within 150 feet (45,720 mm) of all portions of the open parking structure as measured from the approved fire department vehicle access road for fire fighting operations. We request that the Technical Committee reconsider our proposal. We feel that the Committee does not fully understanding our request and justification for this proposed modification to this Standard. Currently, Class I standpipes are only required when parking structures are 50-feet or more in height, regardless of the size of the structure. Our proposed language and request is trying to present that there are many parking structures that are two and three stories in height, and less than the threshold of 50-feet, but yet large in area, that are not accessible for firefighting operations, and are not required to have standpipes, in the event of a vehicle or other type of fire. It is for these reasons that we felt the easiest method of measurement for standpipe requirements for these types of structures, where firefighting operations are hampered due to lack of access within the structure from fire department access roads, is to require standpipes based on proposed method of measurement from the fire department access road. We request that the committee reconsider this issue, to require that Class I standpipes be installed throughout open parking structures when fire department access is not provided within 150 feet of all portions of the open parking structure as measured from the approved fire department vehicle access road for firefighting operations. Submitter Full Name: Kelly Nicolello Organization: Western Regional Fire Code Dev Submittal Date: Tue Apr 16 16:29:17 EDT 2013 I, Kelly Nicolello, hereby irrevocably grant and assign to the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) all and full rights in copyright in this Public Comment (including both the Proposed Change and the Statement of Problem and By checking this box I affirm that I am Kelly Nicolello, and I agree to be legally bound by the above Copyright Assignment and the terms and conditions contained therein. I understand and intend that, by checking this box, I am creating an electronic signature that will, upon my submission of this form, have the same legal force and effect as a handwritten signature Page 11 of 16

12 Public Comment No. 5-NFPA 88A-2013 [ Section No ] Parking structures exceeding a height of 15 m (50 ft) or having parking, when measured from the floor of highest occupiable story to the lowest level of fire department vehicle access and parking structures, having parking levels below grade shall be provided with a Class I standpipe system in accordance with NFPA 14. Provides a specific and non-subjective way to determine height. Similar wording, except for the actual measurement, with a proposal submitted for Submitter Full Name: John Chartier Organization: Northeastern Regional Fire Cod Submittal Date: Thu Apr 11 07:31:39 EDT 2013 I, John Chartier, hereby irrevocably grant and assign to the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) all and full rights in copyright in this Public Comment (including both the Proposed Change and the Statement of Problem and By checking this box I affirm that I am John Chartier, and I agree to be legally bound by the above Copyright Assignment and the terms and conditions contained therein. I understand and intend that, by checking this box, I am creating an electronic signature that will, upon my submission of this form, have the same legal force and effect as a handwritten signature Page 12 of 16

13 Public Comment No. 6-NFPA 88A-2013 [ Section No. 8.3 ] 8.3 Lockers. Metal lockers shall be Where lockers are provided for employees clothes clothe they shall be constructed of metal. Although it is valid to require lockers to be made of non-combustible materials, some proprietors may choose to not provide lockers for employees. As currently worded, it sounds like they are required to provide lockers Submitter Full Name: John Chartier Organization: Northeastern Regional Fire Cod Submittal Date: Thu Apr 11 07:33:16 EDT 2013 I, John Chartier, hereby irrevocably grant and assign to the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) all and full rights in copyright in this Public Comment (including both the Proposed Change and the Statement of Problem and By checking this box I affirm that I am John Chartier, and I agree to be legally bound by the above Copyright Assignment and the terms and conditions contained therein. I understand and intend that, by checking this box, I am creating an electronic signature that will, upon my submission of this form, have the same legal force and effect as a handwritten signature Page 13 of 16

14 Public Comment No. 7-NFPA 88A-2013 [ Section No ] Access shall be provided in accordance with Table of NFPA 101 except that the 560 mm (22 in.) minimum dimensional criteria shall be changed to 915 mm (36 in.) in all locations in the table Table Access Dimensional Criteria Feature Dimensional Criteria Minimum horizontal dimension of any walkway, landing, or platform 36 In. (920 mm) clear Minimum stair or ramp width 36 In. (920 mm) Minimum tread width 36 In. (920 mm) Minimum tread depth 10 In. (255 mm) Maximum riser height 9 In. (230 mm) Handrails are permitted to terminate, at the required height, at a point directly above the top and bottom risers. Maximum height between landings 12 ft. (3.7 m) Minimum headroom 6 ft 8 in. (2.03m) Minimum width of door openings 36 In. (920 mm) clear It is simpler merely to state the needed values than it is to refer unnecessarily to another document, especially if it needs to be modified in the future. Submitter Full Name: John Chartier Organization: Northeastern Regional Fire Cod Page 14 of 16

15 I, John Chartier, hereby irrevocably grant and assign to the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) all and full rights in copyright in this Public Comment (including both the Proposed Change and the Statement of Problem and By checking this box I affirm that I am John Chartier, and I agree to be legally bound by the above Copyright Assignment and the terms and conditions contained therein. I understand and intend that, by checking this box, I am creating an electronic signature that will, upon my submission of this form, have the same legal force and effect as a handwritten signature Page 15 of 16 0

16 Public Comment No. 8-NFPA 88A-2013 [ Section No ] Travel distance to the exterior or to an enclosed stair shall be provided in accordance with the distance criteria for Special Purpose Industrial Occupancies in Table of NFPA feet(122m). There is only one value indicated for sprinklered special purpose Industrial occupancies in the referenced table. It is simpler to merely to state the value than to unnecessarily refer to another document already requires sprinkler systems to be installed in automated parking structures. Submitter Full Name: John Chartier Organization: Northeastern Regional Fire Cod Submittal Date: Thu Apr 11 07:37:02 EDT 2013 I, John Chartier, hereby irrevocably grant and assign to the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) all and full rights in copyright in this Public Comment (including both the Proposed Change and the Statement of Problem and By checking this box I affirm that I am John Chartier, and I agree to be legally bound by the above Copyright Assignment and the terms and conditions contained therein. I understand and intend that, by checking this box, I am creating an electronic signature that will, upon my submission of this form, have the same legal force and effect as a handwritten signature Page 16 of 16 1

Resolution: FR-2-NFPA Statement: The new language requires the action completed by NFPA 557 be prepared by a person that is approved.

Resolution: FR-2-NFPA Statement: The new language requires the action completed by NFPA 557 be prepared by a person that is approved. Public Input No. 1-NFPA 557-2012 [ New Section after 1.5.3 ] 1.6 Approved Qualifications The design shall be prepared by a person with qualifications acceptable to the AHJ. The term designer is used in