Technical Committee on Dry and Wet Chemical Extinguishing Systems (DRY-AAA) Memorandum DATE: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 TO: Principal and Alternate Members of the Technical Committee on Dry and Wet Chemical Extinguishing Systems (DRY AAA) FROM: Jacqueline Wilmot, Fire Protection Engineer/NFPA Staff Liaison SUBJECT: AGENDA PACKAGE NFPA 17/17A First Draft Meeting (F2016) Enclosed is the agenda for the NFPA 17/17A Second Draft meeting of the Technical Committee on Dry and Wet Chemical Extinguishing Systems, which will be held on Tuesday, April 12, 2016 at Holiday Inn Downtown Memphis. Please review the attached public comments in advance, and if you have alternate suggestions, please come prepared with proposed language and respective substantiation. If you have any questions prior to the meeting, please do not hesitate to contact me at: Office: (617) 984-7498 E-mail: jwilmot@nfpa.org For administrative questions, please contact Jenny Depew at (617) 984-7505. I look forward to working with everyone.
Technical Committee on Dry and Wet Chemical Extinguishing Systems (DRY-AAA) NFPA 17/17A Second Draft Meeting (Fall 2016) Tuesday, April 12, 2016 Holiday Inn Downtown Memphis 160 Union Avenue, Memphis, TN 38103 AGENDA 1. Call to Order 8:00 am 2. Introduction and Attendance 3. Review Agenda 4. NFPA Staff Liaison Presentation and Review of Key Dates in F2016 Cycle 5. Chairman Comments 6. Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes 7. Act on Public Comments for NFPA 17 and NFPA 17A 8. Generate Committee Comments for NFPA 17 and NFPA 17A Report from the TG on Residential Cooking Report from the TG on Fusible Link Report from the TG on Zone of Protection Report from the TG on Correlation (96/17A) 9. Other Business 10. Next Meeting 11. Adjourn Meeting No later than 5pm Please submit requests for additional agenda items to the chair and staff liaison at least seven days prior to the meeting.
Technical Committee on Dry and Wet Chemical Extinguishing Systems (DRY-AAA) NFPA 17/17A First Draft Meeting (Fall 2016) Tuesday, April 12 th, 2016 Holiday Inn Downtown Memphis 160 Union Avenue, Memphis, TN 38103 Key Dates for the Fall 2016 Revision Cycle Final Date for First Draft Meeting June 15, 2015 Posting of First Draft and TC Ballot August 3, 2015 Final date for Ballot Return August, 24, 2015 Post First Draft Report for Public Comment September 7, 2015 Public Comment Closing Date November, 16, 2015 Final Date for Second Draft Meeting May 2, 2016 Posting of Second Draft and TC Ballot June 13, 2016 Final Date for Ballot Return July 5, 2016 Final Second Draft Posted July 18, 2016 Closing Date for Notice of Intent to Make a Motion (NITMAM) August 22, 2016 Issuance of Consent Document (No NITMAMs) November 11, 2016 NFPA Annual Meeting June 2016 Issuance of Document with NITMAM August 10, 2017 Technical Committee deadlines are in bold.
Distribution by % DRY-AAA Dry and Wet Chemical Extinguishing Systems Wednesday 03 16, Wednesday Name Company Representation Class Office Art Black Carmel Fire Protection Associates E Principal George Hollingsworth Fairfax County Fire & Rescue E Principal Edward J. Kaminski Clark County Fire Prevention Bureau E Principal Voting Number 3 Percent 10% Thomas H. Kelly Zurich Services Corporation I Principal Stephen M. Micke Allianz Global Corporate & Specialty I Principal Erik G. Olsen Chubb Group of Insurance Companies I Principal Neal G. Pulvermacher West Bend Mutual Insurance I Principal Frederick Sanford Liberty Mutual Insurance Company I Principal Raymond A. Stacy FM Approvals FM I Principal Voting Number 6 Percent 20% Larry Angle M. Jacks Fire & Safety NAFED IM Principal Bradley T. Howard Koorsen Fire & Security IM Principal Bill Isemann Guardian Fire Protection Services LLC IM Principal Sean J. McLaughlin DunnWell, LLC IM Principal Laurie K. Szumla All State Fire Equipment of WNY IM Principal Voting Number 5 Percent 17% Jack K. Dick Heiser Logistics, Inc. M Principal Doug Kline Nowak Supply Fire Systems FSSA M Principal William Klingenmaier Tyco Fire Protection Products TYCO M Principal J. R. Nerat UTC/Badger Fire Protection NFPA/IFPS M Principal William Vegso Buckeye Fire Equipment Company FEMA M Principal J. Craig Voelkert Amerex Corporation M Principal Voting Number 6 Percent 20% Michael E. Luna Intertek Testing Services ITK RT Principal Blake M. Shugarman UL LLC UL RT Principal
Distribution by % DRY-AAA Dry and Wet Chemical Extinguishing Systems Name Company Representation Class Office Voting Number 2 Percent 7% David A. de Vries Firetech Engineering Inc. SE Chair Andrew Blum Exponent, Inc. SE Principal Samuel S. Dannaway S. S. Dannaway Associates, Inc. SE Principal Stephen M. Hill JENSEN HUGHES SE Principal Michael P. McGreal Firedyne Engineering, PC SE Principal Steven A. Sheldon Fisher Engineering, Inc. SE Principal Thomas Steven Wright Wright Fire Consulting, Inc. SE Principal Voting Number 7 Percent 23% Richard W. Wood University of Massachusetts-Lowell U Principal Voting Number 1 Percent 3% 03/16/2016 Total Voting Number 30
Technical Committee on Dry and Wet Chemical Extinguishing Systems (DRY-AAA) NFPA 17/17A First Draft Meeting (Fall 2016) Tuesday, April 12, 2016 Buena Vista Palace Hotel & Spa 160 Union Avenue, Memphis, TN 38103 General Procedures for Meetings Use of tape recorders or other means capable of producing verbatim transcriptions of any NFPA Committee Meeting is not permitted. Attendance at all NFPA Committee Meetings is open. All guests must sign in and identify their affiliation. Participation in NFPA Committee Meetings is generally limited to committee members and NFPA staff. Participation by guests is limited to individuals, who have received prior approval from the chair to address the committee on a particular item, or who wish to speak regarding public proposals or comments that they submitted. The chairman reserves the right to limit the amount of time available for any presentation. No interviews will be allowed in the meeting room at any time, including breaks. All attendees are reminded that formal votes of committee members will be secured by letter ballot. Voting at this meeting is used to establish a sense of agreement, but only the results of the formal letter ballot will determine the official action of the committee. Note to Special Experts: Particular attention is called to Section 3.3(e ) of the NFPA Guide for Conduct of Participants in the NFPA Codes and Standards Development Process in the NFPA Directory. This section requires committee members to declare any interest they may represent, other than their official designation as shown on the committee roster. This typically occurs when a special expert is trained by and represents another interest category on a particular subject. If such a situation exists on a specific issue or issues, the committee member shall declare those interest to the committee and refrain from voting on any action relating to those issues. Smoking is not permitted at NFPA Committee Meetings.
Technical Committee on Dry and Wet Chemical Extinguishing Systems (DRY-AAA) Fall 2016 (2017 Edition) First Draft Meeting Orlando, FL May 7-8, 2015 Meeting Minutes I. Meeting called to order at 8:00AM by Chairman David de Vries. II. Members, alternates and guests were asked to introduce themselves III. Jacqueline Wilmot passed around the attendance list, and passed the committee list and asked attendees to update contact information if necessary. IV. Attendance: Chairman: David A. de Vries Firetech Engineering, Inc. Staff Liaison: Jacqueline R. Wilmot National Fire Protection Association Principals: Larry Angle M. Jacks Fire & Safety Art Black Carmel Fire Protection Associates Jack K. Dick Heiser Logistics, Inc. Stephen M. Hill Jensen Hughes George Hollingsworth Fairfax County Fire & Rescue Bradley T. Howard Koorsen Fire & Security Bill Isemann Guardian Fire Protection Services LLC Edward J. Kaminski Clark County Fire Prevention Bureau Thomas H. Kelly Zurich Services Corporation Doug Kline Nowak Supply Fire Systems William Klingenmaier Tyco Fire Protection Products Michael P. McGreal Firedyne Engineering, PC Sean J. McLaughlin DunnWell LLC Stephen M. Micke Fireman s Fund Insurance Company J.R. Nerat UTC/Badger Fire Protection Erik G. Olsen Chubb Group of Insurance Companies Neal G. Pulvermacher West Bend Mutual Insurance Frederick Sanford Liberty Mutual Insurance Company Steven A. Sheldon Fisher Engineering, Inc. William Vegso Buckeye Fire Equipment Company Alternates (* voting): J. Craig Voelkert Amerex Corporation Mark T. Conroy Brooks Equipment Company (Alt. to Jack K. Dick) Evan de Vries Firetech Engineering, Inc. (Alt. to David de Vries) Kevin Holly* UL LLC (Alt. to Blake M. Shugarman) Sheryl Lemire Tyco Fire Protection Products (Alt. to William Kingenmaier)
Richard T. Long* Exponent, Inc. (Alt. to Andrew Blum) Richard L. Lupien Kidde-Fenwal, Inc. (Alt. to J.R. Nerat) Norbert W. Makowka (Alt. to Larry Angle) National Association of Fire Equipment Distributors Scott M. Plumer Liberty Mutual (Alt. to Frederick Sanford) Guests: Adam Walker Tyco Fire Protection Products Paul Rouse Guardian Safety Solutions Michael Laderoute Globe Technologies R.T. Leicht Delaware State Fire Marshal Office Phil Morton Gaylord Industries Bruce Lukens Gaylord Industries Barry Chase National Fire Protection Association IX. There were 24 voting committee members, 2 of which were alternates as well as other non-voting alternates present. 7 guests attended the meeting. V. The committee accepted the minutes from the previous meeting (ROC) on April 18 th -19 th, 2012 in Nashville, TN. VI. Jacqueline Wilmot, NFPA Staff, gave a presentation on the new NFPA Standards Making Process VII. The committee resolved public inputs with committee statements/created first revisions. a. Chairman David de Vries assigned the following task groups to meet informally regarding some specific proposals and meet back with the committee with recommendations. Task Group Title Group Members Residential Cooking Art Black, Larry Angle, Paul Rouse, Steven Sheldon, Kevin Holly Fusible Link Michael McGreal, George Hollingsworth, Mark Conroy, Craig Voelkert, Bill Klingenmeier, Bill Vegso Zone of Protection Neal Pulvermacher, Craig Voelkert, Sheryl Lemire, R. Thomas Long Correlation (96/17A Task Mark Conroy, Craig Voelkert, BillDave de Vries, Bruce Group) Lukens b. Each Task Group reported their recommendations on proposals, which were acting on by the TC as shown in the First Revision Report. Task Groups will be retained through the Second Revision to address any comments received. VIII. Other Business a. Scott Plumer presented a presentation on the feasibility of merging NFPA 17/17A. No action was taken to merge the documents was taken at this time. b. New meeting: Date and location to be determined. Meeting Adjourned
1 of 2 3/16/2016 11:49 AM Public Comment No. 3-NFPA 17-2015 [ Chapter 2 ] Chapter 2 Referenced Publications 2.1 General. The documents or portions thereof listed in this chapter are referenced within this standard and shall be considered part of the requirements of this document. 2.2 NFPA Publications. National Fire Protection Association, 1 Batterymarch Park, Quincy, MA 02169-7471. NFPA 30, Flammable and Combustible Liquids Code, 2015 edition. NFPA 70, National Electrical Code, 2017 edition. NFPA 72, National Fire Alarm and Signaling Code, 2016 edition. NFPA 96, Standard for Ventilation Control and Fire Protection of Commercial Cooking Operations, 2017 edition. 2.3 Other Publications. 2.3.1 ANSI ASME Publications. American National Standards Institute, Inc., 25 West 43rd Street, 4th Floor, New York, NY 10036. ANSI C-2, National Electrical Safety Code, 2007. 2.3.2 ASME Publications. American Society of Mechanical Engineers ASME International, Two Park Avenue, New York, NY 10016-5990. Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code, 2015. ANSI/ ASME B31.1, Power Piping, 2014 (including B31.1a 1999 Addenda and B31.1b 2000 Addenda). 2.3. 3 2 ASTM Publications. ASTM International, 100 Barr Harbor Drive, P.O. Box C700, West Conshohocken, PA 19428-2959. ASTM A53/A53M, Standard Specification for Pipe, Steel, Black and Hot-Dipped, Zinc-Coated, Welded and Seamless, 2012. 2.3. 3 IEEE Publications. IEEE, 445 and 501 Hoes Lane, Piscataway, NJ 08854-4141. IEEE C2, National Electrical Safety Code (NESC), 2012. 2.3. 4 UL Publications. Underwriters Laboratories Inc., 333 Pfingsten Road, Northbrook, IL 60062-2096. ANSI/UL 300, Fire Testing of Fire Extinguishing Systems for Protection of Commercial Cooking Equipment, 2005, revised2014 revised 2014. ANSI/UL 1254, Pre-Engineered Dry Chemical Extinguishing System Units, 2013. 2.3.5 U.S. Government Publications. U.S. Government Printing Publishing Office, 732 North Capitol Street, NW, Washington, DC 20402 20401-0001. Title 29, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 1910, Subpart S. 2.3.6 Other Publications. Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 11th edition, Merriam-Webster, Inc., Springfield, MA, 2003.
2 of 2 3/16/2016 11:49 AM 2.4 References for Extracts in Mandatory Sections. NFPA 17A, Standard for Wet Chemical Extinguishing Systems, 2017 edition. NFPA 25, Standard for the Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance of Water-Based Fire Protection Systems, 2017 edition. NFPA 72, National Fire Alarm and Signaling Code, 2016 edition. NFPA 122, Standard for Fire Prevention and Control in Metal/Nonmetal Mining and Metal Mineral Processing Facilities, 2015 edition. NFPA 820, Standard for Fire Protection in Wastewater Treatment and Collection Facilities, 2016 edition. NFPA 2001, Standard on Clean Agent Fire Extinguishing Systems, 2015 edition. Referenced current SDO names, addresses, standard names, and editions. First Revision No. 1-NFPA 17-2015 [Section No. 2.2] Submitter Full Name: Aaron Adamczyk Organization: [ Not Specified ] Submittal Date: Mon Nov 09 23:21:30 EST 2015
1 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 24-NFPA 17A-2015 [ Section No. 4.2 ] 4.2 * Detectors. Detectors shall be listed devices that detect heat. 4.2.1 Detectors shall be used for automatic actuation of fire-extinguishing systems. 4.2.2 Fire-extinguishing system releasing mechanisms shall be actuated by mechanical, electronic, or pneumatic detectors. 4.2.3 Detectors for actuation of fire-extinguishing systems shall be mechanical spot type, electronic spot type, electronic linear, or pneumatic linear. 4.2.3.1 Detectors shall be listed to UL 33, Standard for Heat Responsive Links for Fire-Protection Service, UL 521, Standard for Heat Detectors for Fire Protective Signaling Systems, or equivalent standards for listing heat responsive devices for fire protection service. 4.2.4 Where mechanical, electronic, or pneumatic heat detectors are installed to actuate listed pre-engineered fire-extinguishing systems, the heat detectors shall be selected, spaced, and installed to actuate the listed fire-extinguishing system when a fire occurs within the hazard area. 4.2.5 Detectors shall be permitted to be connected to a detector control panel. 4.2.5.1 Detector control panels shall be located so that inspection and maintenance activities are facilitated and interruption of protection is held to a minimum. 4.2.5.2 Detector control panels shall not be located where they can be rendered inoperable or unreliable due to mechanical damage or exposure to fire. 4.2.5.3 Detector control panels shall be permitted to have latches or locks to secure them from malicious or inadvertent tampering. A.4.2.4 Heat responsive devices are often listed or categorized by temperature rating and other factors which have a bearing on their intended use. Selection of these devices for listed pre-engineered extinguishing systems should be based on their anticipated use with components of the listed fire extinguishing system. An important factor in proper selection of detectors is whether the fire-extinguishing system is actuated mechanically, pneumatically, or electronically. A.4.2.5 Detector control panels are cabinets that often house microprocessors, electrical terminals, batteries, light emitting diodes, relays, fuses, and other electronic equipment. Detector control panels are used to interpret the output signals from detectors and cause releasing circuits to actuate the fire-extinguishing system. Currently there is no requirement for heat detectors to be used for system actuation. System actuation should be by heat detection devices and there should be requirements in NFPA 17A. First Revision No. 22-NFPA 17A-2015 [Section No. 4.2] First Revision No. 8-NFPA 17A-2015 [Section No. 5.2.1.3] Public Input No. 37-NFPA 17A-2014 [New Section after 5.2.1.3] Submitter Full Name: Mark Conroy
2 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Organization: Brooks Equipment Company Submittal Date: Mon Nov 16 11:22:29 EST 2015
3 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 25-NFPA 17A-2015 [ Section No. 4.3.3 ] 4.3.3 All discharge nozzles shall be provided with caps or other suitable devices to prevent the entrance of grease vapors, moisture, environmental contaminants, or other foreign materials into the piping. Editorially repeat of text. First Revision No. 2-NFPA 17A-2015 [Sections 4.3.1.5, 4.3.1.6] Submitter Full Name: Mark Conroy Organization: Brooks Equipment Company Submittal Date: Mon Nov 16 14:57:53 EST 2015
4 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 26-NFPA 17A-2015 [ Section No. 4.3.4 ] 4.3.4 The protection device shall blow off, blow open, or blow out upon agent discharge. Editorial repeat of text. First Revision No. 2-NFPA 17A-2015 [Sections 4.3.1.5, 4.3.1.6] Submitter Full Name: Mark Conroy Organization: Brooks Equipment Company Submittal Date: Mon Nov 16 14:59:06 EST 2015
5 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 27-NFPA 17A-2015 [ Section No. 4.4.3.2 ] 4.4.3.2 Manual actuators shall not require a movement of more than 14 in. (356 mm) to initiate operation. Pulling a cable 14 inches out of a pull station to operate a system is excessive. It is better to delete the text than to leave an unsafe situation in the standard. Public Input No. 24-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 4.4.3.2] Submitter Full Name: Mark Conroy Organization: Brooks Equipment Company Submittal Date: Mon Nov 16 15:03:29 EST 2015
6 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 10-NFPA 17A-2015 [ New Section after 4.4.4.1 ] Add the following language as 4.4.4.1 and renumber accordingly 4.4.4.1 On actuation of any cooking equipment fire extinguishing system, all sources of fuel and electric power that produce heat to all equipment protected by the system shall be shut down. 4.4.4.1 was removed as a result of the first draft. Substantiation of first draft change was based on intent to improve correlation between NFPA 17A and 96. Although this is certainly the direction committees are taking, it is the belief of the Fire Suppression Systems Association and its membership that this does not improve nor clarify the intent of the standard, which by NFPA definition is: 1.2 Purpose. This standard is prepared for the use and guidance of those charged with the purchasing, designing, installing, testing, inspecting, approving, listing, operating, or maintaining of pre-engineered wet chemical fire-extinguishing systems in order that such equipment will function as intended throughout its life. Removal of this paragraph will diminish the guidance this standard is intended to provide. Having it in both 17A and 96 provides additional opportunities for the requirements to be followed. First Revision No. 41-NFPA 17A-2015 [Section No. 4.4.4.1] Submitter Full Name: DOUG KLINE Organization: NOWAK SUPPLY FIRE SYSTEMS Affilliation: Fire Suppression Systems Association Submittal Date: Mon Oct 26 16:23:12 EDT 2015
7 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 11-NFPA 17A-2015 [ New Section after 4.4.4.1.1 ] add the following language as 4.4.4.2 and renumber accordingly: 4.4.4.2 Gas appliances not requiring protection but located under the same ventilation equipment shall also be shut off. 4.4.4.2 was removed as a result of the first draft. Substantiation of first draft change was based on intent to improve correlation between NFPA 17A and 96. Although this is certainly the direction committees are taking, it is the belief of the Fire Suppression Systems Association and its membership that this does not improve nor clarify the intent of the standard, which by NFPA definition is: 1.2 Purpose. This standard is prepared for the use and guidance of those charged with the purchasing, designing, installing, testing, inspecting, approving, listing, operating, or maintaining of pre-engineered wet chemical fire-extinguishing systems in order that such equipment will function as intended throughout its life. Removal of this paragraph will diminish the guidance this standard is intended to provide. Having it in both 17A and 96 provides additional opportunities for the requirements to be followed. First Revision No. 40-NFPA 17A-2015 [Section No. 4.4.4.2] Submitter Full Name: DOUG KLINE Organization: NOWAK SUPPLY FIRE SYSTEMS Affilliation: Fire Suppression Systems Association Submittal Date: Mon Oct 26 22:21:18 EDT 2015
8 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 12-NFPA 17A-2015 [ New Section after 4.4.4.1.1 ] Add the following language as 4.4.4.3 and renumber accordingly 4.4.4.3 Steam supplied from an external source shall not be required to be shut down. 4.4.4.3 was removed as a result of the first draft. Substantiation of first draft change was based on intent to improve correlation between NFPA 17A and 96. Although this is certainly the direction committees are taking, it is the belief of the Fire Suppression Systems Association and its membership that this does not improve nor clarify the intent of the standard, which by NFPA definition is: 1.2 Purpose. This standard is prepared for the use and guidance of those charged with the purchasing, designing, installing, testing, inspecting, approving, listing, operating, or maintaining of pre-engineered wet chemical fire-extinguishing systems in order that such equipment will function as intended throughout its life. Removal of this paragraph will diminish the guidance this standard is intended to provide. Having it in both 17A and 96 provides additional opportunities for the requirements to be followed. First Revision No. 33-NFPA 17A-2015 [Section No. 4.4.4.3] Submitter Full Name: DOUG KLINE Organization: NOWAK SUPPLY FIRE SYSTEMS Affilliation: Fire Suppression Systems Association Submittal Date: Tue Oct 27 05:18:18 EDT 2015
9 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 13-NFPA 17A-2015 [ New Section after 4.4.4.1.1 ] Add the following language as 4.4.4.4 and renumber accordingly 4.4.4.4 Solid fuel cooking operations shall not be required to be shut down. 4.4.4.4 was removed as a result of the first draft. Substantiation of first draft change was based on intent to improve correlation between NFPA 17A and 96. Although this is certainly the direction committees are taking, it is the belief of the Fire Suppression Systems Association and its membership that this does not improve nor clarify the intent of the standard, which by NFPA definition is: 1.2 Purpose. This standard is prepared for the use and guidance of those charged with the purchasing, designing, installing, testing, inspecting, approving, listing, operating, or maintaining of pre-engineered wet chemical fire-extinguishing systems in order that such equipment will function as intended throughout its life. Removal of this paragraph will diminish the guidance this standard is intended to provide. Having it in both 17A and 96 provides additional opportunities for the requirements to be followed. First Revision No. 34-NFPA 17A-2015 [Section No. 4.4.4.4] Submitter Full Name: DOUG KLINE Organization: NOWAK SUPPLY FIRE SYSTEMS Affilliation: Fire Suppression Systems Association Submittal Date: Tue Oct 27 05:36:45 EDT 2015
10 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 14-NFPA 17A-2015 [ New Section after 4.4.4.1.1 ] Add the following language as 4.4.4.7 4.4.4.7 Shutoff devices shall require manual resetting prior to fuel or power being restored. 4.4.4.7 was removed as a result of the first draft. Substantiation of first draft change was based on intent to improve correlation between NFPA 17A and 96. Although this is certainly the direction committees are taking, it is the belief of the Fire Suppression Systems Association and its membership that this does not improve nor clarify the intent of the standard, which by NFPA definition is: 1.2 Purpose. This standard is prepared for the use and guidance of those charged with the purchasing, designing, installing, testing, inspecting, approving, listing, operating, or maintaining of pre-engineered wet chemical fire-extinguishing systems in order that such equipment will function as intended throughout its life. Removal of this paragraph will diminish the guidance this standard is intended to provide. Having it in both 17A and 96 provides additional opportunities for the requirements to be followed. First Revision No. 35-NFPA 17A-2015 [Section No. 4.4.4.7] Submitter Full Name: DOUG KLINE Organization: NOWAK SUPPLY FIRE SYSTEMS Affilliation: Fire Suppression Systems Association Submittal Date: Tue Oct 27 05:44:35 EDT 2015
11 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 19-NFPA 17A-2015 [ Section No. 5.1.2.1 ] 5.1.2.1 Each protected cooking appliance, individual hood, and branch exhaust duct directly connected to the hood shall be protected by a system or systems designed and installed for simultaneous operation. This type of requirement belongs in the occupancy document NFPA 96. NFPA 96 has addressed when simultaneous discharge is required and when it is not in NFPA 96 First Revision paragraphs 10.3.1.1 through 10.3.1.3. Public Input No. 28-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.1.2.1] Public Input No. 38-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.6.3.1 [Excluding any Sub-Sections]] Public Input No. 51-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.6.3.1.1] Public Input No. 62-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.1.2.1] Public Input No. 79-NFPA 17A-2015 [New Section after 5.1.2.4] Submitter Full Name: Philip Morton Organization: Gaylord Industries Inc. Submittal Date: Fri Nov 13 18:50:43 EST 2015
12 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 17-NFPA 17A-2015 [ Section No. 5.1.2.2 ] 5.1.2.2 Where two or more hazards can be simultaneously involved in fire by reason of their proximity, the hazards shall be protected by either of the following: (1) Individual systems installed on each hazard to operate simultaneously (2) A single system designed and installed to protect all hazards that can be simultaneously involved This type of requirement belongs in the occupancy document NFPA 96. NFPA 96 has addressed when simultaneous discharge is required and when it is not in NFPA 96 First Revision paragraphs 10.3.1.1 through 10.3.1.3. Public Input No. 38-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.6.3.1 [Excluding any Sub-Sections]] Submitter Full Name: Philip Morton Organization: Gaylord Industries Inc. Submittal Date: Fri Nov 13 18:33:01 EST 2015
13 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 18-NFPA 17A-2015 [ Section No. 5.1.2.3 ] 5.1.2.3 Any hazard that will allow fire propagation from one area to another shall constitute a single fire hazard. This type of requirement belongs in the occupancy document NFPA 96. NFPA 96 has addressed when simultaneous discharge is required and when it is not in the First Revision paragraphs 10.3.1.1 through 10.3.1.3. Public Input No. 38-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.6.3.1 [Excluding any Sub-Sections]] Public Input No. 62-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.1.2.1] Public Input No. 51-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.6.3.1.1] Public Input No. 28-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.1.2.1] Public Input No. 79-NFPA 17A-2015 [New Section after 5.1.2.4] Submitter Full Name: Philip Morton Organization: Gaylord Industries Inc. Submittal Date: Fri Nov 13 18:39:23 EST 2015
14 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 28-NFPA 17A-2015 [ Section No. 5.4.5 ] 5.4.5 Wet chemical containers and expellant gas assemblies shall be accessible for inspection, maintenance, and recharge. Text seems to be repetitive to 5.4.6. Public Input No. 34-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.4.6] Submitter Full Name: Mark Conroy Organization: Brooks Equipment Company Submittal Date: Mon Nov 16 15:19:27 EST 2015
15 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 20-NFPA 17A-2015 [ Section No. 5.6.1 [Excluding any Sub-Sections] ] Systems protecting two or more hoods or plenums, or both, that meet the requirements of 5.1.2.2 shall be installed to ensure the simultaneous operation of all systems protecting the hoods, plenums, and associated cooking appliances located below the hoods. This type of requirement belongs in the occupancy document NFPA 96. NFPA 96 has addressed when simultaneous discharge is required and when it is not in the NFPA 96 First Revision paragraphs 10.3.1.1 through 10.3.1.3. Public Input No. 38-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.6.3.1 [Excluding any Sub-Sections]] Public Input No. 51-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.6.3.1.1] Public Input No. 62-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.1.2.1] Public Input No. 28-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.1.2.1] Public Input No. 79-NFPA 17A-2015 [New Section after 5.1.2.4] Submitter Full Name: Philip Morton Organization: Gaylord Industries Inc. Submittal Date: Fri Nov 13 18:55:35 EST 2015
16 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 21-NFPA 17A-2015 [ Section No. 5.6.2.1 [Excluding any Sub-Sections] ] Common exhaust ducts shall be protected by one of the following methods: (1) (2) * Simultaneous operation of all independent hood, duct, and appliance protection systems * Simultaneous operation of any hood, duct, and appliance protection system and the system(s) protecting the entire common exhaust duct This type of requirement belongs in the occupancy document NFPA 96. NFPA 96 has addressed when simultaneous discharge is required and when it is not in NFPA 96 First Revision paragraphs 10.3.1.1 through 10.3.1.3. Public Input No. 38-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.6.3.1 [Excluding any Sub-Sections]] Public Input No. 51-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.6.3.1.1] Public Input No. 62-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.1.2.1] Public Input No. 79-NFPA 17A-2015 [New Section after 5.1.2.4] Public Input No. 28-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.1.2.1] Submitter Full Name: Philip Morton Organization: Gaylord Industries Inc. Submittal Date: Fri Nov 13 19:03:10 EST 2015
17 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 22-NFPA 17A-2015 [ Section No. 5.6.3.1 [Excluding any Sub-Sections] ] Either a common extinguishing system shall be provided to protect both the ignition source(s) contained within an exhaust system and the exhaust system itself, or separate extinguishing systems shall be provided to protect the exhaust system and the ignition sources which shall be arranged for simultaneous automatic operation upon actuation of any one of those systems. I believe this paragraph was inadvertently left in as the Committee Statement for Public Input No. 38 states "This subject is adequately addressed in NFPA 96 and no longer needs to be in NFPA 17A." Public Input No. 28-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.1.2.1] Public Input No. 38-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.6.3.1 [Excluding any Sub-Sections]] Public Input No. 51-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.6.3.1.1] Public Input No. 62-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.1.2.1] Public Input No. 79-NFPA 17A-2015 [New Section after 5.1.2.4] Submitter Full Name: Philip Morton Organization: Gaylord Industries Inc. Submittal Date: Fri Nov 13 19:16:32 EST 2015
18 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 15-NFPA 17A-2015 [ Section No. 5.6.3.1.1 ] 5.6.3.1.1 A secondary filtration or air pollution control unit, whether or not it includes an ignition source, shall be protected either with a separate automatic fire suppression system designed to operate simultaneously with the activation of the automatic fire suppression system protecting the ventilation hood(s) being served or with a single automatic fire suppression system that protects both the secondary filtration or air pollution control unit and the hood(s) being served. To improve correlation between NFPA 17A and 96. This requirement is already in NFPA 96 (9.3.3 and 9.3.3.1). NFPA 17A is an installation standard. This type of provision belongs in the occupancy document (NFPA 96). NFPA 96, paragraphs 9.3.3 and 9.3.3.1 were updated in the first revision. Public Input No. 51-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.6.3.1.1] Submitter Full Name: Mark Conroy Organization: Brooks Equipment Company Submittal Date: Thu Nov 12 17:43:44 EST 2015
19 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 23-NFPA 17A-2015 [ Section No. 5.6.3.1.1 ] 5.6.3.1.1 A secondary filtration or air pollution control unit, whether or not it includes an ignition source, shall be protected either with a separate automatic fire suppression system designed to operate simultaneously with the activation of the automatic fire suppression system protecting the ventilation hood(s) being served or with a single automatic fire suppression system that protects both the secondary filtration or air pollution control unit and the hood(s) being served. I believe this paragraph was inadvertently left in as the Committee Statement for Public Input No. 38 states "This subject is adequately addressed in NFPA 96 and no longer needs to be in NFPA 17A." Public Input No. 28-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.1.2.1] Public Input No. 38-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.6.3.1 [Excluding any Sub-Sections]] Public Input No. 51-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.6.3.1.1] Public Input No. 62-NFPA 17A-2014 [Section No. 5.1.2.1] Public Input No. 79-NFPA 17A-2015 [New Section after 5.1.2.4] Submitter Full Name: Philip Morton Organization: Gaylord Industries Inc. Submittal Date: Fri Nov 13 19:24:56 EST 2015
20 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 2-NFPA 17A-2015 [ New Section after 6.4.4 ] TITLE OF NEW CONTENT Type your content here...periodic System Recertification (1) An AHJ witnessed recertification / retest of the entire system shall be conducted every 5 or 6 years. If the AHJ does not require their presence during the retest/recertification,the authorized distributor shall furnish the owner and AHJ with a document indicating that the recertification test has been performed. A authorized representative of the property shall also provide a document attesting to the performance of the test, providing names of all attendees.test results shall be provided to the local AHJ and owner. Test results shall be permanately posted alongside the system. (2) A Flow test shall be conducted every 5/6 years confirming that the piping/nozzle network is unobstructed and free of debris, grease, solidified extinguishing agent. Manufacturers shall supply the industry with mimimum quantity of extinguishing agent for each nozzle type, for comparisson to retest results. Manufacturers to supply minimum quantity of wet agent by weight of water or volume of minimum liqquid.a flow test shall be conducted using water as the flow test median. Quantity of water collected during flow test shall be compared to the minimum liquid requirements. All nozzles must achieve at least the minimum manufacturers allowable liquid quantity. (3) Recertification shall include a confirmation that all appliances originally filed and approved have not changed location, size, manufacturer or type and that all appliances, hood,duct and plenumn are fully protected meeting the original installation requirements. If a manufacturers has updated or made a addendun for a nozzles coverage, this change shall be provided to the AHJ and industry; the most current nozzle coverage shall apply. (4) All detection, activation and manual mechanical system shall be visually examined to assure that no visable signs of grease, debris, dust willl impair the operation of the system.a full funtional test of the system shall be performed. (5) All mechanical and electrical detection, fuel and appliance shutdown and releasing systems shall be fully tested in compliance with original installation procedures (6) A nitrogen or air test shall only be performed on an original installation or after a systems extinguishing system piping and detection system have been replaced in its entirety. The recommendation is made with the intent of maintaining and assuring the initial extinguishing system design qualities' are not reduced or compromised due to continuous use, neglect, lack of maintenance and aging of the fire suppression system. Statistically the wet chemical, "kitchen fire extinguishing market" has a large number of insurance claims, due to lack of proper maintenance, clogged piping, and dirty nozzles, and customers who refuse to re-pipe systems due to appliance being relocated on the cooking line. It is a known fact in the industry that grease is drawn into the agents suppression piping through the nozzles(lack of caps) Over time and the constant heating and cooling of the pipes collects grease internally and become clogged with grease impairing the flow a agent to the nozzle. This recommendations is similar to the all the requirements in NFPA 25 for sprinkler systems, assuring that all aspects of the sprinkler system will function as initially intended. A nitrogen test should only be performed on a system when the installer is fully aware that he/she can guarantee that there is no grease or debris in a piping configuration. Otherwise this is no different than a person whose has multiple blocked arteries,just not fully. The flow test validates and quantifies the systems ability. The need for the AHJ involvement is to assure the introduction and performance of the test. First Revision No. 8-NFPA 17A-2015 [Section No. 5.2.1.3]
21 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Submitter Full REYNOLD ALEXANDER Name: Organization: LUND FIRE PRODUCTS INC Richard F. Alexander ( brother/partner to Reynold R. Alexander ) Affilliation: Lund Fire Products Co. Inc. Submittal Date: Sun Sep 20 09:45:58 EDT 2015
22 of 22 3/16/2016 11:50 AM Public Comment No. 29-NFPA 17A-2015 [ Section No. 7.3.3.5 [Excluding any Sub-Sections] ] Parts that are found during maintenance that could cause an impairment or failure of operation of the system shall be replaced by listed components as required by paragraph 4.1 in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions. Some manuals don't recognize components described in NFPA 17A, paragraph 4.1. First Revision No. 20-NFPA 17A-2015 [Section No. 7.3.3.5 [Excluding any Sub-Sections]] Submitter Full Name: Mark Conroy Organization: Brooks Equipment Company Submittal Date: Mon Nov 16 15:28:23 EST 2015
http://submittals.nfpa.org/terraviewweb/formlaunch?id=/terraview/c... 1 of 1 3/16/2016 11:51 AM Committee Input No. 21-NFPA 17A-2015 [ New Section after B.11 ] Annex C Residential Range Top Cooking Submitter Full Name: Jacqueline Wilmot Organization: [ Not Specified ] Submittal Date: Thu May 07 16:59:50 EDT 2015 Committee Statement and Meeting Notes Committee Statement: Response Message: Task Group to develop annex material based on Public Input: 80, 82, 83, 85, 86, 87 and other material as appropriate. Public Input No. 87-NFPA 17A-2015 [Section No. 5.2.1.11] Public Input No. 83-NFPA 17A-2015 [New Section after 3.3.14] Public Input No. 80-NFPA 17A-2015 [Section No. 1.3] Public Input No. 86-NFPA 17A-2015 [New Section after 5.1] Public Input No. 85-NFPA 17A-2015 [Section No. 5.1] Public Input No. 82-NFPA 17A-2015 [Section No. 2.3.1] Ballot Results This item has not been balloted