NFPA Technical Committee On Fire Hose NFPA 1961 Minutes Task Group Update Underwriters Laboratory November 15 th - 16 th 2016 Tuesday, November 15 th, 2016 Meeting called to order at 8:07 AM by Chairman Andrew Ellison. Introductions made by the Chair, committee members, NFPA Staff Liaison, Jacqueline Wilmot and Dan Gorham of the Fire Protection Research Foundation. Jacqueline Wilmot passed around the Committee List and asked attendees to make any necessary corrections. Also passed around an attendance list and asked that attendees check off their names and asked that guests add their names. Attendees Andrew Ellison, Chair Jason Goodale, Secretary Jacqueline Wilmot, Staff Liaison Principals Bill Betz Christopher Budzinski Jonathan Cares Thomas Farruggia Brian Fink James Glatts William Graves Jeff Hebenstreit Jayme Kahle Duane Leonhardt Toby Mathews Michael Mayer David Quick Marc Radecky Jason Riggenbach John Stacey Tim Vanderlip David Walsh Samuel Wu Voting Alternates Stephen Jackson Nicholas Nava Alternates Jonathan Larrabee Guests Jesse Edwards, All American Hose Daniel Gorham, Fire Protection Research Foundation David Walsh, Boston Fire Department
Motion and second to accept, the Previous Meeting Minutes from the Second Draft Meeting (Denver, CO), succeeded. Jacqueline Wilmot also reviewed the Annual 2018 Revision Cycle dates: Final date for Second Draft meeting - 11/8/2017 Posting of Second draft and TC ballot - 12/20/2017 Final date for Ballot Return - 1/10/2018 Final Second Draft posted - 1/24/2018 Closing Date for Notice of Intent To Make a - 2/21/2018 Motion Issuance of Consent Document (if no NITMAMs) - 4/29/2018 NFPA Association Meeting - 6/4 7/2018-8/14/2018 Issuance of Document (if NITMAMs were submitted) The following Task Groups were given 1 hour of time to break out into working groups to discuss the status of the group. a. Radiative Test Task Group b. Conductive Test Task Group c. Task Group on New Document Request Guide for Selection of Fire Hose, Appliances & Nozzles d. Task Group on Combination of NFPA 1964/1965 e. Task Group on Education & Training Coordination Letter f. Ultra-High Pressure Fire Hose Task Group Task Group Chairs provided Task Group Reports to the Technical Committee. a. Task Group on New Document Request Guide for Selection of Fire Hose, Appliances & Nozzles (Reported by Task Group Chair David Quick): The purpose of this task group is to complete the new document request form and letter to the NFPA Standards Council to demonstrate the need for a Guide for Selection of Fire Hose, Appliances& Nozzles. The document request form and letter was shared with the Technical Committee and comments made by committee members were incorporated. b. Task Group on the Combination of NFPA 1964 & 1965 (Reported by Jonathan Larrabee): The purpose of this task group is to combine NFPA 1964 and NFPA 1965.NFPA 1965 will be incorporated into NFPA 1964 since the revision cycle for NFPA 1964 comes up first. A pdf of the combination of the documents was sent to the committee members two weeks before this meeting to be reviewed. The first revisions in NFPA 1964 are not included in the combination document, but will
be if no second revisions are made to remove the first revisions. All other work has been completed. A conference call is being scheduled for late January 2017/early February 2017. Task Group dismissed. c. Task Group on the Education & Training Coordination Letter (Report by Bill Betz): A letter has been developed and shared with the Technical Committee to be sent to the Staff Liaison of other NFPA Technical Committees (NFPA 100, NFPA 1403, NFPA 1500, NFPA 1700, NFPA 1710, NFPA 1720, NFPA 1901) to make them aware of the thermal resistance of fire hose and the current work by the Technical Committee on Fire Hose. Task Group Members will submit public inputs and public comments on related documents to address the general comments of the letter. This task group will continue to work on submitting public input of related documents and work with the staff liaisons of those documents to determine the location of where the public inputs belong with the various documents. d. Task Group on Ultra-High Pressure Fire Hose (Reported by Jason Goodale): The purpose of this task group is to develop language on ultra high pressure hose to be incorporated into NFPA 1961. This task group will continue to work with the NFPA Library to review older editions of NFPA 1961 to use the latest language as a starting point. e. Task Group on Conductive Test Methods (Reported by Nick Nava): The purpose of this task group is to review existing conductive test methods to be incorporated into NFPA 1961. This task group needs to determine if current fire hose can be sent out and tested to BS 6391 to determine if it can pass this test. The decision was made to use the current UL 19 hot block test method but at higher starting temperatures. The Fire Protection Research Foundation can provide some level of support to coordinate a blind study of manufacturers to bring results back to the Technical Committee. A conference call will be scheduled on December 12 th to discuss updates. f. Task Group on Radiative Test Methods (Reported by Tim Vanderlip and Michael Aubuchon via phone) The purpose of this task group is to develop radiative test methods to be incorporated into NFPA 1961. Thus far, this task group reviewed NFPA 1971 & 1981, ATSM documents, and ISO documents. The Technical Committee discussed the need to consider a test method using hose pressurized with air vs. water due to capabilities of testing laboratories. The advantages and disadvantages of using radiant heaters with air-pressurized hose and crib-fire type exposure with water-pressurized hose were thoroughly discussed. In the end, a straw poll determined there are more pros to utilizing radiant panel test pressurized with air than cons compared to the discussed crib test with fire hose being pressurized with water. This task group will request the Research Foundation to perform a radiative panel test with a 3-foot section of hose filled with air at 100 psi at 30kW/m2.
An update on the Fire Protection Research Foundation Project titled: Fire Fighter Equipment Operational Environment: Evaluation of Thermal Conditions was provided by Dan Gorham Technical Committee took a break to observe a Fire Test by the UL Firefighter Safety Research Institute. Technical Committee reconvened and discussed the potential conductive and radiative test methods. Meeting adjourned at 4:35PM on 11/15/16. Wednesday, November 16 th, 2016 Meeting called to order at 8:00 AM by Chairman Andrew Ellison Technical Committee witnessed fire hose tests 8:00AM-10:00AM Debrief from Dan Madrzykowski, 10:00-10:30am A discussion on the available timeline was held to determine if the Technical Committee has the time and expertise to develop a repeatable and reproducible test method for NFPA 1961. Monthly conference calls will be conducted to provide updates on the progress made by the remaining task groups. Next in-person meeting is scheduled for March/May of 2017. Meeting adjourned at 1PM by Chairman Ellison.
NFPA 1961 Radiant Heat Test Method Development November 15, 2016 Jeff Hebenstreit Principal Engineer Fire Suppression Products DISTRIBUTED WITHOUT PERMISSION OF UNDERWRITERS LABORATORIES INC. UL and the UL logo are trademarks of UL LLC 2016.
Target Test Condition Radiant Heat 30 kw/m 2 Pressure 120 psi Hose condition Pressurized with Water (flowing) 2
Determine Proper Fuel Load Radiant Heat 30 kw/m 2 Wood Cribs Various sizes commonly used Will cribs alone be adequate Other ideas to increase heat flux 3
Wood Crib Specifications UL 711 for rating/testing fire extinguishers 4
Wood Crib Diagram 5
1A Crib 6
3A Crib 7
Determine Fuel Load for Target Heat Flux 1A crib & 3A Crib Cribs alone did not produce enough heat flux Plume Diverter 1A Crib w Plume Diverter (OSB closet) Enough heat flux but not steady state 3A Crib with Plume Diverter More steady state 8
Hose #1 Air Filled 9
Hose #1 Air Filled 10
Radiant Heat Fire Hose Testing 11
Test Set Up 3A Crib with Plume Diverter Diverter OSB lined with concrete board Steady state burn after about after 3 min Holds steady state for 10 min Hose approximately 2 ft away from crib 12
3A with Cement Board Lined Diverter 13
3A with Cement Board Lined Diverter 14
Hose #5 Water Pressurized 15
Hose #5 - Water Pressurized 16
Hose #5 - Water Pressurized 17
18
Post Test Hose 19
Live Demonstration Heat Source 3A crib Plume Diverter Lined with Concrete Board Heptane Pan Ignition Achieve Steady State Burn / Heat Flux Hose 2ft from Crib Hose 10 ft length 1 st hose Filled with Air 2 nd hose Pressurized with Water 20
Research Staff UL Firefighter Safety Research Institute Dan Madrzkowski Jack Regan Robin Zevotek Paul Courtney Keith Stakes Building 11 Crew 21
THANK YOU.