At 06:29 PM 2/24/2011, you wrote: >>>>>Jim, thank you for your inquiry. We charge $0.20 per sq.. ($ >>>>>min.)

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1 >>>>>> Hi Fred, >>>>>> >>>>>> I've been reading your pages (and others) for a while now. We will >>>>>> be star ng construc on of a new home in a month or so and have been >>>>>> ge ng very expensive and confusing es mates regarding radiant >>>>>> floor heat. I've been looking into this for a while and have visited >>>>>> some homes with this feature. >>>>>> >>>>>>The house will be very ght and well insulated, though it will have a >>>>>>por on with a high ceiling. The fuel will be Propane. Loca on is in >>>>>>PA, The final planing to do is all related to the HVAC system >>>>>>and I'd like to try to get this finalized soon. We will have a new, >>>>>>efficient design wood stove (not to be used to heat water for any >>>>>>purpose) as we have acres of wood available on our lot. Otherwise, >>>>>>we've been looking at combina ons of ducted hot air (and AC), >>>>>>mini split systems, radiant and combina ons of these. Proffessionaly, >>>>>>I'm an engineer (electronic), but am very hands on with construc on >>>>>>and plan to be doing a significant bit of it on the build. I feel >>>>>>confident to deal with most all plumbing related tasks. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>So, what would be required for you do engage in a preliminary >>>>>>discussion of a system design for us? I'd appreciate any feedback you >>>>>>can provide. >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you for your me! >>>>>> >>>>>>Regards, Jim Hildenberger At 06:29 PM 2/24/2011, you wrote: >>>>>Jim, thank you for your inquiry. We charge $0.20 per sq.. ($ >>>>>min.) 1

2 Date: Tue, 01 Mar :25: >>>>To: "Fred Seton" >>>>From: Jim >>>>Subject: Re: new home build; hydronic radiant heat design? >>>> >>>>Hi Fred, >>>> >>>> Here are the latest revision plans for our project. There will be a >>>> final version coming in a couple weeks, but the differences are rather >>>> minimal and I don't believe they will affect the HVAC system much if at >>>> all. >>>> >>>>FYI, the floor coverings are as follows: >>>> >>>>1st floor: >>>> >>>>kitchen, both hallways, living room and dining room: hardwood laminate >>>>bathroom, laundry room and sun room: le >>>>bedroom carpet >>>> >>>>2nd floor: >>>>bathroom le >>>>bedroom, lo office and landing: carpet >>>> >>>>Most of the insula on specs should be on the 1st page of the plans; one >>>>change is the roof insula on is going to be R50, rather than R40 as >>>>shown. The house construc on I'd consider to be "very ght" in all >>>>aspects. Fuel is Propane; we have a 1K Gallon tank on site. There will >>>>be a wood burning stove in the basement. We have essen ally a life me >>>>supply of harvest able firewood on the site. >>>> >>>> >>>>Please let me know what other info you require and what your payment >>>>details are. >>>> >>>>Thank you, Jim Hildenberger >>>> (home) 2

3 Hi Fred, >>> >>>Could you please confirm this arrived with our plans? Also, as we've been >>>ge ng either the run around, bad advice or super high price quotes >>>locally, I just want to know if you'll definitely be able to get involved >>>with our project. We'll be under some me pressure regarding submission >>>of building permits (say next month). If you're unable to help, that's >>>ok, just let me know. Sorry to perhaps be premature or appear to be pushy >>>and impa ent, but things have not gone well here regarding good data for >>>this type of system >>> >>>Thanks very much, Jim >>> > At 01:19 PM 3/4/2011, you wrote: >>We can do the design in a day or two, the complete floor plans came with >>your last and would be all we need for the design. We would charge >>you $ for the design work and support. From: "Jim" <analogb@verizon.net> To: "Fred Seton" <fseton@starband.net> Sent: Saturday, March 05, :26 AM Subject: Re: Re: new home build; hydronic radiant heat design? > > > Hi Fred, > > OK, sounds good; how to get started? Can I send you a check or do you want > a cc #? > > Thanks, Jim 3

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6 T = Thermostat Loca on BASEMENT T T These jobs always seem very confusing at first; ignore that. It is like all large projects, simply start with one small part of it. In other words, start with one loop of tubing, read the instruc ons carefully and go from there. A er the first couple of loops you will start to understand what to do. You will even improve on my design as you run into things such as or be er ways to get to the area needing heat. Your system is designed to put off more than twice the heat you need; so if you skip a space or come up short in a loop, it is not a problem. The heat will spread out through the are and heat very evenly in the end. 6

7 HILDENBERGER FLOOR BASEMENT TYPE SLAB SQ. FT. 1,424² BTU S 15,664 PEX 1,000 TIES 600 STATS 2 ELBOWS 4 DO NOT USE OVER 500 IN ONE LOOP HOLD BACK 18 FROM OUTSIDE WALLS 1,424² HOLD BACK 18 FROM OUTSIDE WALLS /2 PEX 18 SPACING /2 PEX 18 SPACING HOLD BACK 18 FROM OUTSIDE WALLS INSTALL THE FURTHERMOST LOOP OF TUBING FROM MANIFOLD FIRST FIRST TWO PASSES AT 12 SPACING ARROWS INDICATE DIRECTION OF FLOW NO ARROW INDICATES FLOW DIRECTION NOT IMPORTANT BE SURE TO LEAVE ENOUGH TUBING TO GO FROM AND TO THE MANIFOLD. DO NOT GO OVER 500 FEET IN ONE LOOP HOLD BACK 18 FROM OUTSIDE WALLS MANIFOLD WARNING! NOT TO SCALE The area represented with each loop is the actual area for the loop but there is not room on the 8 1/2" by 11" papers to represent the loops. 6 MIL VISQUEEN VAPOR BARRIER THROUGHOUT SLAB AREA. LAP SEAMS 12 MIN. 7

8 FLOOR TYPE HILDENBERGER BASEMENT SLAB DO NOT USE OVER 500 IN ONE LOOP 1,424² SQ. FT. 1,424² BTU S 15,664 PEX 1,000 TIES 600 STATS 2 ELBOWS 4 INSTALL THE FURTHERMOST LOOP OF TUBING FROM MANIFOLD FIRST FIRST TWO PASSES AT 12 SPACING ARROWS INDICATE DIRECTION OF FLOW NO ARROW INDICATES FLOW DIRECTION NOT IMPORTANT BE SURE TO LEAVE ENOUGH TUBING TO GO FROM AND TO THE MANIFOLD. DO NOT GO OVER 500 FEET IN ONE LOOP MANIFOLD WARNING! NOT TO SCALE The area represented with each loop is the actual area for the loop but there is not room on the 8 1/2" by 11" papers to represent the loops. 6 MIL VISQUEEN VAPOR BARRIER THROUGHOUT SLAB AREA. LAP SEAMS 12 MIN. 8

9 T = Thermostat Loca on FIRST FLOOR T T T T T These jobs always seem very confusing at first; ignore that. It is like all large projects, simply start with one small part of it. In other words, start with one loop of tubing, read the instruc ons carefully and go from there. A er the first couple of loops you will start to understand what to do. You will even improve on my design as you run into things such as or be er ways to get to the area needing heat. Your system is designed to put off more than twice the heat you need; so if you skip a space or come up short in a loop, it is not a problem. The heat will spread out through the are and heat very evenly in the end. 9

10 FLOOR TYPE HILDENBERGER FIRST STAPLE UP SKIP OUTSIDE JOIST SPACE NEXT TO EXTERIOR WALLS 1,418² SQ. FT. 1,418² BTU S 26,942 PEX 2, /2 PEX STAPLES 3,000 STATS /2 PEX HOLD BACK 18 FROM OUTSIDE WALLS /2 PEX HOLD BACK 18 FROM OUTSIDE WALLS ADD /2 PEX, SEE GREEN LOOP A er the two loops are installed in the area open to above, add one loop, With a single run in each joist space. This will equal three tubes in each joist space that is open to above /2 PEX /2 PEX SKIP OUTSIDE JOIST SPACE NEXT TO EXTERIOR WALLS INSTALL THE FURTHERMOST LOOP OF TUBING FROM MANIFOLD FIRST STAPLE AT 16 CENTERS ARROWS INDICATE DIRECTION OF FLOW NO ARROW INDICATES FLOW DIRECTION NOT IMPORTANT /2 PEX BE SURE TO LEAVE ENOUGH TUBING TO GO FROM AND TO THE MANIFOLD. DO NOT GO OVER 500 FEET IN ONE LOOP WARNING! NOT TO SCALE The area represented with each loop is the actual area for the loop but there is not room on the 8 1/2" by 11" papers to scale the tubing runs or actual floor joist layouts. TO MANIFOLD SKIP OUTSIDE JOIST SPACE NEXT TO EXTERIOR WALLS 10

11 FLOOR TYPE HILDENBERGER FIRST STAPLE UP The green loop is put in last. It will require drilling holes in the opposite ends of the joist spaces 1,418² SQ. FT. 1,418² BTU S 26,942 PEX 2,900 STAPLES 3,000 STATS 5 ADD /2 PEX, SEE GREEN LOOP A er the two loops are installed in the area open to above, add one loop, With a single run in each joist space. This will equal three tubes in each joist space that is open to above. INSTALL THE FURTHERMOST LOOP OF TUBING FROM MANIFOLD FIRST ARROWS INDICATE DIRECTION OF FLOW NO ARROW INDICATES FLOW DIRECTION NOT IMPORTANT BE SURE TO LEAVE ENOUGH TUBING TO GO FROM AND TO THE MANIFOLD. DO NOT GO OVER 500 FEET IN ONE LOOP WARNING! NOT TO SCALE The area represented with each loop is the actual area for the loop but there is not room on the 8 1/2" by 11" papers to scale the tubing runs or actual floor joist layouts. TO MANIFOLD 11

12 T = Thermostat Loca on LOFT T These jobs always seem very confusing at first; ignore that. It is like all large projects, simply start with one small part of it. In other words, start with one loop of tubing, read the instruc ons carefully and go from there. A er the first couple of loops you will start to understand what to do. You will even improve on my design as you run into things such as or be er ways to get to the area needing heat. Your system is designed to put off more than twice the heat you need; so if you skip a space or come up short in a loop, it is not a problem. The heat will spread out through the are and heat very evenly in the end. 12

13 FLOOR TYPE HILDENBERGER LOFT STAPLE UP 820² SQ. FT. 820² BTU S 11,480 PEX 500 STAPLES 400 STATS 1 SKIP OUTSIDE JOIST SPACE NEXT TO EXTERIOR WALLS INSTALL THE FURTHERMOST LOOP OF TUBING FROM MANIFOLD FIRST /2 PEX ARROWS INDICATE DIRECTION OF FLOW NO ARROW INDICATES FLOW DIRECTION NOT IMPORTANT HOLD BACK 18 FROM OUTSIDE WALLS BE SURE TO LEAVE ENOUGH TUBING TO GO FROM AND TO THE MANIFOLD. DO NOT GO OVER 500 FEET IN ONE LOOP STAPLE AT 16 CENTERS WARNING! NOT TO SCALE The area represented with each loop is the actual area for the loop but there is not room on the 8 1/2" by 11" papers to scale the tubing runs or actual floor joist layouts. 13

14 FLOOR TYPE HILDENBERGER LOFT STAPLE UP 820² SQ. FT. 820² BTU S 11,480 PEX 500 STAPLES 400 STATS 1 INSTALL THE FURTHERMOST LOOP OF TUBING FROM MANIFOLD FIRST ARROWS INDICATE DIRECTION OF FLOW NO ARROW INDICATES FLOW DIRECTION NOT IMPORTANT BE SURE TO LEAVE ENOUGH TUBING TO GO FROM AND TO THE MANIFOLD. DO NOT GO OVER 500 FEET IN ONE LOOP STAPLE AT 16 CENTERS WARNING! NOT TO SCALE The area represented with each loop is the actual area for the loop but there is not room on the 8 1/2" by 11" papers to scale the tubing runs or actual floor joist layouts. 14

15 Affordable Radiant Hea ng Design PHOENIX WATER HEATING SYSTEM NAME HILDENBERGER PHONE CHARGE $500 AREA SQ. FT. BTU REQ. TYPE X PEX LENGTH STAPLES TIES STATS BASEMENT 1,424² 15,664 SLAB 1, / FIRST FLOOR 1,418² 26,942 STAPLE 2, /2 300,4 1/ , SECOND FLOOR/LOFT 820² 11,480 STAPLE / THIRD FLOOR STAPLE GARAGE SLAB SNOWMELT FOIL INSULATION TOTALS 3,662² 54,086 4, /2 300,7 1/ , BTU S FURNISHED 100,000 X 95 % EFFICIENCY 95,000= BTU S AVAILABLE I do not sell products so I am free to recommend the best and most economical products. Do not try to order everything from one supplier. Some suppliers will try to redesign or sell other products, you are dealing with a sales person. DO NOT CHANGE SUPPLIERS WITH OUT CHECKING WITH ME! EQUIPMENT NO. MODEL/ PART NUMBER SUPPLIER BOILER 1 Phoenix Combi Heater Model# PH radiantheatproducts.com ask for 5% Seton discount Code Fred Seton TACO CONTROL PANEL 2 TVC 406 THERMOSTATS 8 PSD010B SS MANIFOLD 1 SS Manifolds 10 PORTS 11 SM A Actuators PEX TUBING 4,400 1/2" RHR PEX ORDER ON NEXT PAGE STAPLES 34 3/4" Clips 100 per box P6BK (Used for 1/2 tubing) TIES OR FOAM STAPLES /2 or 8 Tie Wraps FOIL INSULATION Sq. Ft. Foil/Bubble/Foil + Tape 15 Copyright by RDS All Rights Reserved

16 Affordable Radiant Hea ng Design Quality by Design Name HILDENBERGER Phone Descrip on Product ID Price Order for OPEN Add for CLOSED Cost Supplier 10 Branch Brass Deluxe PEX Manifold BSM010 $ Pextubingstore.com With Balancing Valves Actuator Actuator 24 Volt two wire SM A $ /2" Pex Tubing W/Barrier (500') RHR 250 $0.310 Per Ft 7 0 1/2 Pex Tubing W/Barrier (1,000 ) RHR 210 $0.285 Per /2 Pex Coupling (5) PXC 22 $ /2" Pex Cinch SS Clamp (100) SSC 2 $ Clamp Tool for SS C rings SSCT $ Manual Clip Gun Black RB 5 $ Pneuma c Clip Gun RB 6 $ /4" Flush Mount Clips (100) RB $ Stand up Foamboard Staple Gun RSST $ Nylon Zip Ties $ Sq. Ft. Foil/Bubble/Foil + Tape at $ Taco control panel (up to 6 thermostats) ZVC $ Taco pump 0011 Stainless Steel Taco 0011 SF 4 $ Taco pump 0011 SS Taco 0011 F4 $ Taco pump 008 Stainless Steel Taco 008 SF 6 $ Pump flanges 1 Flanges Stainless SF $ Pump flanges 1 Flanges Iron $ Room Thermostat PSP511LC/TX500E $ Taco Tempering Valve 1" 5004 C2 $ SS 4 X 12 Brazed Plate Heat Exchanger 30 Plates $ Taco differen al bypass valve 3/ $ Order your equipment package complete and receive a 5% discount! Use code RDI 5 Pextubingstore.com is also very good for plumbing supplies. Pex Tubing Store Expansion tank (for closed system) EXT AMT 15 $ Radiantheatproducts.com Wa s fill valve (for closed system) WATTS SB1156F $ for a 5% discount! 16 Copyright by RDS All Rights Reserved

17 Affordable Radiant Hea ng Design Phoenix Modula ng, Condensing Water Heater Offers Space Hea ng + Water Hea ng with 96% Efficiency The new PHOENIX gas fired water heater from Heat Transfer delivers both space hea ng and domes c hot water in a single, high efficiency, condensing and modula ng appliance. The sealed combus on, direct vent unit is intended for residen al and commercial applica ons. Opera ng with either natural gas or liquid propane, the Phoenix has a combus on efficiency of 96%. Side tapings in the jacket permit connec ons to a hydro air or radiant floor system for space hea ng. In this setup, a pump circulates the heated water from the Phoenix to a heat exchanger in the ductwork or tubing in the floor to provide heat for the living space. Phoenix Combines DHW with Space Hea ng, With one purchase, you can get a high efficiency domes c hot water system and a high efficiency space hea ng system that will more than pay for itself over me. The Phoenix requires a rela vely small footprint, enabling it to squeeze into the ght spaces so o en found in commercial applica ons. Its lightweight construc on, including a rustproof plas c jacket, makes it easy to maneuver into those confined areas. Ven ng up to 85 feet (intake and exhaust piping combined) is permi ed with 2 inch or 3 inch Schedule 40 PVC piping, depending upon the model. This ven ng requires zero clearance to combus bles, further enhancing installa on flexibility. High grade, stainless steel woven fiber burner: Featuring all stainless steel construc on and a spark igni on system, the burner assembly at the front exterior of the unit is a streamlined version of the one used on Heat Transfer s popular Munchkin condensing boilers. This fully modula ng, ultra low NOx burner is load matching, so that it saves substan al amounts of energy by limi ng its firing to current demand. As demand for hot water rises, the unit s fan accelerates. As demand decreases, so does fan speed. This is in sharp contrast to a conven onal burner, which fires to the maximum regardless of demand. In addi on, the Phoenix burner is enclosed in a handsome black plas c cover that is readily removable for easy serviceability. Corrosion resistant, stainless steel heat exchanger: The heat exchanger s large, high quality surface area is designed to extract all the latent energy from the combus on process, as well as from the by products of that process. Condensing Phoenix water heaters extract so much heat that the resul ng low exhaust temperatures permit ven ng with PVC, Phoenix Combines DHW with Space Hea ng, The Phoenix carries one of the industry s strongest warran es and is available in three sizes: 119 gallons, 80 gallons and 55 gallons. Each of these units offers three firing rates: 199,000 BTU per hour, modula ng down to 66,000 BTU/h; 130,000 BTU/h to 44,000 BTU/h; or 100,000 BTU/h to 44,000 BTU/h. 17 Copyright by RDS All Rights Reserved Copyright by RDI All Rights Reserved

18 Affordable Radiant Hea ng Design Phoenix Modula ng, Condensing Water Heater 18 Copyright by RDS All Rights Reserved

19 Affordable Radiant Hea ng Design Taco Differen al Bypass Valve Part# 3196 This part needs to go between the supply and return at the manifold a er the pump. A CALL FOR HEAT TURNS BOTH PUMPS ON IRON TACO #0011 1" FLANGES PHOENIX CLOSED/INDIRECT SYSTEM, SINGLE MANIFOLD 30 SS Plate Heat Exchanger Connec ons: 1" Threaded MIXING VALVE DOMESTIC OUT H M C COLD IN SS TACO #008 1", STAINLESS FLANGES RADIANT SUPPLIES AND RETURNS BALL VALVE Plumb from heater to heat exchanger with 1 copper or pex. SWING CHECK VALVE Wa s PLT 5 Potable Water Expansion Tank 2.1 Gallons FILL VALVE A THERMOSTAT WIRED TO THE CONTROL PANEL, CONTROLS AN ACTUATOR ON THE MANIFOLD, IT SIMPLY OPENS THE ACTUATOR AND TURNS THE PUMPS ON ALL PLUMBING BETWEEN HEATER AND HEAT EXCHANGER MUST BE PEX OR COPPER OR BRASS NO CAST IRON OR GALVANIZED OR STEEL 19 Copyright by RDS All Rights Reserved

20 Affordable Radiant Hea ng Design PHOENIX OPEN SYSTEM, SINGLE MANIFOLD Taco Differen al Bypass Valve Part# 3196 This part needs to go between the supply and return at the manifold a er the pump. DOMESTIC OUT M C H MIXING VALVE SS TACO #0011 1" STAINLESS FLANGES BRASS SWING CHECK VALVE Plumb from heater to manifold with 3/4 pex. RADIANT SUPPLIES AND RETURNS ALL PLUMBING MUST BE PEX OR COPPER OR BRASS NO CAST IRON OR GALVANIZED OR STEEL If local code allows it, this is the best system 20 Copyright by RDS All Rights Reserved

21 Affordable Radiant Hea ng Design When cold water comes into a water heater and is heated it has to expand, without the expansion tank the water has no place to expand and will build up excessive pressure. Water heaters come with a pressure relief valve set at 150 pounds. This means that the pressure will build up to 150 pounds before it is relieved. This will damage the plumbing system in your house par ally your facets, the hea ng manifolds and valves in your hea ng system. Also the lack of an expansion tank will cause a water hammer every me you close a faucet, again this will cause damage to your hea ng manifolds, valves and your house hold plumbing. These problems are common to city water systems. EXPANSION TANKS ON OPEN SYSTEMS An scald valve Mixed hot water to house Cold water to house 2.5 Gal. expansion tank Pressure reducing valve Set at 45 Pounds Not to exceed 60# 21 Copyright by RDS All Rights Reserved

22 Affordable Radiant Hea ng Design OR 3/4 ANTI SCALD MIXING VALVE ANTI SCALD VALVE FOR OPEN SYSTEMS 3/4 COPPER PIPE MIXED OUT COLD IN This whole house mixing valve allows you to run the heater at a high temperature if needed to heat your house and allows you to adjust the domes c hot water to a safe opera ng temperature, it also increases the amount of hot water available. This tank does not require dielectric unions. Do not use steel or galvanized pipe. Use copper and brass only. Do not sweat fi ngs while on mixing valve or with rubber gaskets installed. Mixing valve should be installed below top of tank. USE BRASS FITTINGS AND COPPER PIPE DO NOT USE GALVANIZED PIPE OR FITTINGS 22 Copyright by RDS All Rights Reserved

23 Affordable Radiant Hea ng Design To purge close blue valve and open li le red valve. PURGING PHOENIX SYSTEM DISREGARD STUPID LITTLE FLOW METERS Now open one loop at a me un l air is no longer showing up. Removing the actuator opens the valve. When air is gone close li le red valve and open big blue valve. Air that is returned to water heater can be removed through a hot water facet in the house. ALL FITTINGS AND PUMP SHOULD BE BRASS STAINLESS STEEL OR COPPER TO AND FROM A TACO 008 PUMP WILL HANDLE UP TO LOOPS. A TACO 0011 PUMP WILL HANDLE UP TO 14 LOOPS. BALANCING IS DONE BY RETURN WATER TEMPERATURE. Single loops on a stat do not need balancing. If mul ple loops on a single stat are nearly the same length they do not need balancing. If one loop is much shorter than the others on a single stat thro le it down un l it matches the other loops, you can match the temperatures by touching the pex tubing. 23 Copyright by RDS All Rights Reserved

24 Affordable Radiant Hea ng Design THERMOSTAT WIRING RC RH B O Y W G C WIRING FOR A TWO CONTROL PANEL, SINGLE PUMP SYSTEM CONNECT THERMOSTAT WIRES TO W & RH POLARITY NOT IMPORTANT The neural or white 120 volt wire is connected to the two white wires and the pump neutral in both controls. The hot or black 120 volt wire is connected to the two black wires and these two terminals in both controls. SINGLE CIRCULATING PUMP A THERMOSTAT ON THE CONTROL PANEL CAN CONTROL AN ACTUATOR ON EITHER MANIFOLD 24 Copyright by RDS All Rights Reserved