First Process Air Compressors, Boilers and Water Heaters Stakeholder Meeting

Transcription

1 First Process Air Compressors, Boilers and Water Heaters Stakeholder Meeting Introduction This memo summarizes the key discussions that were held during the first Investor Owned Utility (IOU) sponsored 2011 Title 24 stakeholder meeting for Process Air Compressors, Boilers, and Water Heaters. The meeting was held at the San Ramon Conference Center May 25 th, Most of the discussions focused on specific code change options presented and the proposed methods of analysis or presentation of data. For a full understanding of the scope of each code change proposal, this memo should be read in conjunction with the power point materials that were presented at the stakeholder meeting. Attendees IN PERSON: Kyle Harris, Accurate Air Engineering Dale Stocking, Air Dale Compressors Ed Williamson, Air Dale Compressors Kashmir Uppal, Atlas Copco Tuan Ngo, California Energy Commission Ed Hevern, Clyde Equipment Company, Inc. Mike McGaraghan, Energy Solutions Megan Johnson, Energy Solutions Matt Haro, HMG Yanda Zhang, HMG Matt Tyler, PECI ON-LINE: Dan Groshans, Cadmus Bill Falkenhayn, Cadmus Rob Hudler, California Energy Commission Jeff Miller, California Energy Commission Mazi Shirakh, California Energy Commission Sabaratnam Thamilseran, California Energy Commission Ron Yasny, California Energy Commission Devin Liebmann, Ecos Kevin O Brien, Ecos Keith Kaste, Energy Solutions Russell Torres, Energy Solutions Al Moreno, Kaeser Compressors Jon McHugh, McHugh Energy Jamy Bacchus, NRDC Robert Choi, Noritz America Robert Glass, Raypak 1

2 Dave Booth, Sullair Jeff Stein, Taylor Engineering Meeting notes WATER HEATER STANDBY LOSS This CASE report will investigate a mandatory requirement for water heater exhaust systems to be equipped with flue dampers, unless a high efficiency water heater is installed. Tuan Ngo, CEC, raised two questions, first: is there a safety issue with requiring homeowners to install a flue damper; and second: would this measure cause federal pre-emption issues? o Yanda Zhang, HMG, indicated that the flue damper requirement would be part of the building exhaust system and it would be installed by a qualified contractor to address safety concerns. To address the second question, the customer could choose to purchase a water heater that exceeded federal standards, but it would not be required so as to not conflict with federal efficiency standards. Tuan Ngo, CEC, this CASE report should include a comparison of the cost effectiveness of the options for the builder or homeowner to evaluate which compliance option is better to install a water heater with low standby losses or a standard water heater with an added flue damper. Tuan Ngo, CEC, do tankless water heaters have their own hot water tank? o Yanda Zhang, HMG, there are tankless water heaters with a small tank, but not all tankless water heaters have a small tank. There is always a tradeoff, the benefit of having no tank is that there is no standby loss. Kyle Harris, Accurate Air Engineering, an observation as a consumer is that he recently had a water heater go out and thought about going to a high efficiency water heater but could not because there wasn t an outlet nearby. Tuan Ngo, CEC, there is a question on the benefits of PVC, would there be problems with the PVC cracking because in retrofit applications the PVC pipe would be within sheet metal and the PVC and sheet metal will expand at different rates. o Yanda Zhang, HMG, water pipes do have freezing issues that can potentially cause cracks; in an exhaust system it is an open system and will not have the same problems. PVC pipe has been widely used in condensing water heaters. One issue that will require further evaluation is if the PVC pipe would have a shorter useful life than metal pipes. Robert Glass, Raypak, on the issue of availability of 3 rd party flue dampers; he recommends that any flue dampers that are not supplied by the manufacturer should be certified and/or recommended by the manufacturer to prevent issues with 3 rd party flue dampers not properly connecting to the water heater or causing issues with the water heater warranty. Robert Glass, Raypak, on the issue of PVC vents forced draft would not necessarily mean condensing; and requiring PVC at this time would necessarily require condensing products. PVC pipes might not be rated at temperatures that could accommodate forced draft and so requiring PVC pipes would in effect require condensing products. There are other suitable materials including CPVC, polypropylene, AL429C. o Yanda Zhang, HMG, agree that we should not limit to one material and will consider other alternatives. 2

3 Tuan Ngo, CEC, why should we use PVC? o When using condensing water heater or forced draft, when flue gas condenses you can have acid in condensate so if you have a metal pipe it can cause erosion problems; need a material that will resist corrosion. Jon McHugh, note that any comments or suggestions such as those regarding material selection from Robert Glass would be useful to have in writing. Rob Hudler, CEC, do manufacturers already have installation guidelines that we could use as an information source? o Robert Glass, Raypak, yes all manufacturers will have information, it may be called installation notes, etc. but should be available on the manufacturer s websites Rob Hudler, CEC, manufacturers can report standby losses with or without pilot so we may not be comparing the same information for all manufacturers o Yanda Zhang, HMG most manufacturers will report certified standby loss in AHRI directory so we can compare the same data across manufacturers Rob Hudler, CEC, there are new products coming out that might not necessarily fit within forced draft or tankless water heater categories, what about water heater heat pumps? o Yanda Zhang, HMG water heater heat pumps will most likely not be included in this measure because that is targeting electric water heater use and this measure is targeting gas water heater use. Robert Glass, Raypak with an instantaneous water heater a flue damper wouldn t add anything to the efficiency, why would it be required? o Yanda Zhang, HMG this measure wouldn t require to add a flue damper on a tankless water heater, it is an OR requirement that you would need to add a flue damper OR install a high efficiency water heater o Robert Glass, Raypak it would make sense with tankless to not require a flue damper, but with forced draft type water heaters there may still be a benefit to installing a flue damper; induced draft may be more effective with a vent on top of the storage tank, it will depend on the manufacturer s design Robert Glass, Raypak is this process considering whether it will be cost effective to enforce these requirements? If the addition of a flue damper saves 24 $1.50/therm, this would save $30/year. If installation is $200, then this measure would have a 7 year payback. What determines if it is deemed to be cost effective? o Yanda Zhang, HMG, yes any proposal must meet the cost effectiveness criteria. The calculation for cost effectiveness is determined by the CEC. We have sets of energy costs and we will do a lifecycle savings benefit versus incremental cost calculation. The analysis period will be the expected life of the measure. Rob Hudler, CEC, with regard to the modifications to the ACM, assume that impacts from changes to the ACM will vary depending on type of water heater and capacity, will you be developing savings for each type and size of water heater? o Yanda Zhang, HMG, yes the 43% savings quoted in the presentation is only used to estimate impacts. This question may be more forward looking, since we do not see any qualifying products at this time it may not be something we can implement right away. Rob Hudler, CEC, do manufacturers provide numbers on their products? 3

4 o Yanda Zhang, HMG, yes we can use AHRI ratings to compare standby losses and you can see that products with flue dampers will have lower standby losses Rob Hudler, CEC, do we know for sure that the only modification to that piece of equipment is the addition of a flue damper? Yanda Zhang, HMG, yes, for commercial products we can look at values for equipment with integral flue dampers and compare to equipment without integral flue dampers. Robert Glass, Raypak, recommend that the CASE authors contact manufacturers to obtain information, manufacturers will be happy to provide information to ensure that Title 24 requirements are based on available equipment. o Yanda Zhang, HMG, yes the LBNL study used in the presentation is only to show potential impacts and will not be used directly to develop Title 24 requirements Tuan Ngo, CEC, can you share the calculations used to develop the pie charts in the presentation showing energy savings? o Yanda Zhang, HMG, the pie charts were not developed by HMG but were taken from LBNL simulations Tuan Ngo, CEC, will the potential code change be affected by LPG use? Yanda Zhang, HMG, regarding concerns about using modeling software for developing savings estimates, the latest DOE rulemaking on water heaters addressed the accuracy of simulation tools; NIST performed analysis of simulation tools and found them to be very accurate. Sabaratnam Thamilseran, CEC, regarding using manufacturers data, we will need to normalize the manufacturer s data for specific set points. o Yanda Zhang, HMG, water heater test data does have standardized test points; although there is no standard for flue damper loss, so we will need to be cautious as to how we use that data. Robert Glass, Raypak, on slide #23 the PVC and condensate drain requirements would be more stringent than the federal standards o Yanda Zhang, HMG, this is an authority question, federal pre-emption covers the appliance standards and minimum efficiency requirements in order to be sold; the federal standards do not cover the building or exhaust system. Robert Glass, Raypak, using metal vent pipe would not preclude the use of condensing water heater; there are metal exhaust systems that can accommodate all types of water heaters. SPACE HEATING HOT WATER TEMPERATURE RESET This CASE report will investigate a modification to chilled and hot water temperature reset controls. Robert Glass, Raypak, doesn t agree completely that it will always create a benefit on the hot water side; in some installation situations where units are installed primary secondary; you could have the size of boilers to meet peak and turn down for part load demands without having outdoor air reset. o Jeff Stein, Taylor Engineering, you don t have to use temperature resets now for variable flow systems -- only in constant flow systems. 4

5 Sabaratnam Thamilseran, CEC, I have seen boilers with dual burner mode or single burner mode, what percent of boilers are with modulating burners? o Robert Glass, Raypak, if you look at condensing boilers, 100% are modulating; non condensing 20% are modulating starting at residential size and going up to 5 million Btu Robert Glass, Raypak, if a system is designed where the full speed of a variable pump corresponds to the full input of the boiler and that provides the Btu needed for minimum outdoor air design criteria, as the boiler backs off in modulation and system pump backs off that will allow the whole system to modulate the firing rate what will be the minimum temperature requirements for the system; and you are able to accomplish that without outdoor air reset. You don t want to limit the ability of an engineer or manufacturer to adopt other approaches. Jamy Bacchus, NRDC, if Taylor could provide the source of the energy savings by resetting the hot water supply temp. and resulting penalty in electrical energy we could better evaluate this proposal. PROCESS BOILERS This CASE report will investigate four potential measures for large process boilers: flue dampers, parallel positioning controls, parallel positioning with oxygen trim controls, and variable frequency drive on combustion air fans. Robert Glass, Raypak, asked for clarification on size of units covered by the proposed standard o Matt Tyler, PECI, I imagine this measure will cover process boilers somewhere around 2 million Btu/hr and larger. As part of this investigation we will look at different size ranges to determine which sizes are cost effective. Robert Glass, Raypak, there are a lot of boilers up to 6 million Btu/hr that are already moderate to high efficiency and none of the proposed requirements would apply to them o Matt Tyler, PECI, the size range per measure is yet to be determined as part of the project due diligence Robert Glass, Raypak, it would be helpful to see the air quality regulations for boilers between 2 and 5 million Btu, because the information provided in the presentation starts at 5 million Btu/hr Tuan Ngo, CEC, what is the relation between the air quality regulations and Title 24? Do they conflict, will we overlap with air district requirements? o Matt Tyler, PECI, most facilities choose to comply with the new air quality regulations using a low NOx burner. In most cases, these burners come standard with forced draft and parallel positioning control. This project can not claim savings for these units. It raises the baseline for the cost effectiveness analysis. AIR COMPRESSORS This CASE report will investigate requirements for industrial plants with compressed air systems to implement system control mechanisms on multi-compressor systems, as well as potential system design guidelines. Dave Booth, Sullair, will this apply to existing systems or new systems? o Megan Johnson, Energy Solutions, that is something that needs to be determined. Mike McGaraghan clarified that proposals must be determined to be cost effective and feasible with existing technology or technology that could be reasonably assumed to be available by the code effective date. 5

6 Dave Booth, Sullair, it sounds as if the controls proposal is already set? o Megan Johnson, Energy Solutions, it is set that we will evaluate the controls aspect of this measure to determine if it is cost effective, but it must meet the cost effectiveness criteria in order to be adopted. Tuan Ngo, CEC, how would you change the process exemption? o Megan Johnson/Mike McGaraghan, Energy Solutions; Yanda Zhang, HMG, that is not determined yet, but we will be working with the CEC during this process to assist with that and determine what language will need to be modified. Tuan Ngo, CEC, it seems like if you make a small change to the language or remove the process exemption it could have unintended consequences. So we should just change the definition for compressed air and not for all process loads. Stakeholder, this is a huge change and will impact every industrial facility in the state. If you require multi-compressor systems to have controls there will be a loophole that everyone will just install one compressor, which will be hugely inefficient. o Megan Johnson, Energy Solutions, yes we are working to make any potential stakeholders aware of this process and obtain their feedback and input. Please feel free to forward any additional stakeholders that may be interested in this process or have feedback. We are considering how to address that potential loophole in the controls requirements. Kyle Harris, Accurate Air Engineering, is this just for compressed air systems and if so why? o Mike McGaraghan, Energy Solutions: California s Long Term Strategic Plan set out a goal of Zero Net Energy new construction by 2020 (2030 for residential sector), so the CEC is working toward these goals. The strategy has always been to go after the low hanging fruit first. There isn t much low hanging fruit left, so the CEC is turning toward process loads, and among process loads, air compressors are the low hanging fruit. o Yanda Zhang, HMG, the first step was to address refrigerated warehouses in a new section during the last code revision. Kyle Harris, Accurate Air Engineering, so this could potentially be done in the same way refrigerated warehouses were? Yanda Zhang, HMG, yes. Dave Booth, Sullair, is this for new construction only? Yanda Zhang, explained that this is for new construction and renovation. Kyle Harris, Accurate Air Engineering, it seems like this process could go down the path to requiring changes for all retrofits. o Mike McGaraghan, Energy Solutions, it depends on the local building code as to whether a permit is required for retrofits on compressed air systems, which would then trigger compliance with Title 24. o Dave Booth, Sullair, typically industrial facilities don t require permits for changes made inside the building. o Tuan Ngo, CEC, building department requirements can vary from location to location. o Sabaratnam Thamilseran, CEC, believes we should come back to this issue as the CEC is working with its legal department and we can sort this out before our next stakeholder meeting. 6

7 Dave Booth, Sullair, what is the best method for providing feedback? o Megan Johnson, Energy Solutions, you can communicate directly with me (contact information provided in presentation). Dave Booth, Sullair, how did you develop the contact list for this group? It seems like a very small review committee and everyone will be affected by this auto body shops, car dealers, etc. o Sabaratnam Thamilseran, CEC, even ski resorts making snow will have air compressors. o Megan Johnson, Energy Solutions, we developed the contact list for this meeting by looking at the DOE Compressed AirSystem Qualified Specialist List, the Compressed Air Challenge Participants, members of Compressed Air and Gas Institute, as well as web research to identify manufacturers and vendors. We would like your input on additional individuals or groups who may have input or concerns related to this proposal. Al Moreno, Kaesar Compressors, another point is that for small facilities it may not be realistic, will there be a threshold? o Megan Johnson, Energy Solutions, we are open to input on exclusions to the proposed standard. We will need to evaluate if it is cost effective for small facilities. Suggestion to send a link to the meeting attendees that they can forward to others that should be on the list. We should also get large industrial users involved, and potentially utilities could identify large industrial users who would be affected. o Kyle Harris, Accurate Air Engineering, should also check for Energy Star program participants, Save EnergyNow Expert List, AirMaster+ List. o Mike McGaraghan, Energy Solutions, do you know who some of the major industrial users in California are? Kyle Harris, Accurate Air Engineering, Kraft has a lot of facilities in the state, refineries, steel mills, power production facilities. Ed Williamson, Air Dale Compressors, Title 24 is not addressing process compressors as we used to call them. Need to be careful in using older references as there have been a lot of changes to the industry. The market assessment reports need to be re-visited, and AirMaster+ is out of date. o AirMaster+ is in the process of being updated right now by DOE, could be completed in Post-meeting discussion: Ed Williamson, Air Dale Compressors, current incentive programs for air compressors are flawed because they pick arbitrary baselines and give rebates based on those baselines they picked 100 pounds, but every industry is different and has different needs. o Mike McGaraghan, Energy Solutions, are the rebate programs consistent? o Yes, in California they are. The northwest and northeast have good programs set up, which we should look at. 7